2021 MUSTANG (S650) - 7th Generation Mustang Confirmed

[jkstang78]

Making a car light is easy.

Making a car affordable, also easy.

Making a high performance car, fairly easy

Making a high performance car that is light and affordable, extremely hard.

If that was easy to make a car Light. Then why is the new S550 V8 Gt 150 lbs heavier then the out going S197 GT models. The S550 was an all new model and they should have made it lighter like they kept saying they were going to do. Not just because they put a 4 cly motor in the car and that happens to be the Lighter model.

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[Clearman]

If that was easy to make a car Light. Then why is the new S550 V8 Gt 150 lbs heavier then the out going S197 GT models. The S550 was an all new model and they should have made it lighter like they kept saying they were going to do. Not just because they put a 4 cly motor in the car and that happens to be the Lighter model.

To my understanding, this was the dilemma Ford had all along with giving the Mustang an Independent Rear Suspension. While it would obviously give the Mustang performance advantages in handling, because of what was involved, it would increase the weight significantly, as well. Now they have to try and trim the fat elsewhere.

 

[Genxer]

Making a car light is easy.

Making a car affordable, also easy.

Making a high performance car, fairly easy

Making a high performance car that is light and affordable, extremely hard.

Yes. Mfrs can lighten by using materials like carbon fiber (look at exotics). Exotics are also a lot more than $40k. It's a trade off. I think we WILL see lighter cars as time goes on due to improvements in mfg. I believe the coming MPG standards will force car makers to use more aluminum, introduce carbon fiber and use more thermoplastics. To keep costs down, they will find ways to manufacture materials more economically.

 

[68fbjjz109]

If that was easy to make a car Light. Then why is the new S550 V8 Gt 150 lbs heavier then the out going S197 GT models. The S550 was an all new model and they should have made it lighter like they kept saying they were going to do. Not just because they put a 4 cly motor in the car and that happens to be the Lighter model.

You have to keep in mind the S550 Mustang was funded at the worst time in automotive history. It's success and lessons learned from the GT and F150 is likely why the S650 was pushed father forward faster.

One of the functional objectives for the Mustang was to maintain BIW mass and material/construction improve crash performance. The car meet that. Making the switch to aluminum would put about 650-750 of cost into the vehicle. Let alone the manufacturing changes and logistics.

I am hoping to see aluminum closures for a mid cycle action of the S550 with some other aluminum suspension goodies.

 

[Topnotch]

http://www.freep.com/story/money/ca...-carbon-fiber-ford-gt-oak-ridge-lab/81619428/

 

[Endokendal]

http://www.freep.com/story/money/ca...-carbon-fiber-ford-gt-oak-ridge-lab/81619428/

Interesting article, thanks.... I could go for some CF parts!

 

[uglygun]

Interesting article, thanks.... I could go for some CF parts!

Hopefully they dont get used under the car other than maybe the drive shaft.

I like the idea of steel/aluminum in places where bumps/dents/abrasion from road debris can happen.

Leave the heavy stuff closest to the ground for low center of gravity and put the light weight stuff from bottom 1/3 of the car upwards.

 

[FordBlueHeart]

They already make skid plates for dirt bikes out of carbon fiber. Why would you not want to use it on a car?

 

[S550Boss]

Let's hope that the S650 is not just another evolution of the platform that goes back to the late nineties. But it likely will be.
The DEW98 was a world-class platform... but was then dumbed down into the S197... loosing all the good suspension bits. And then upgraded into the S550 with better suspension bits but everything else was mostly carryover.
All these cars share the same lineage - and therefore limitations. The S550 inherited the the S197 engine placement, less than optimal, all the H-points, and the entire steel structure (minus a slight improvement in the A-pillars). Other than that, it's the same underneath. It's heavy overall, fairly nose-heavy, with poor interior room. An entirely new from-scratch platform is needed here.... will Ford ever spend the money?
GM is spending it... they had the Zeta platform, now the Alpha platform (world class), and they will use the Alpha 2 platform update for the next round. All by the 2020 timeframe.
Alpha architecturally is a far better platform than S550. And it benefits from all of the considerable amount of engineering that was done for the CTS and ATS that share the platform (and perhaps a Buick coming up). These three cars will go lockstep into the 2020s together, each benefiting.
If Ford had continued developing the DEW98, this is where we'd by now. But until the decision to spend major development dollars (>6B$) is finally made by Ford executives - if it is at all - we're just going to have to keep on getting half-measures like the S550 was. That means a heavy car, no fundamental changes to incorporate major aluminum structural components, that means no room for a hybrid motor+battery (combine that with the 2.3EB and you have more torque than the current 5.0), and that again means an inefficient interior. There will be heroic engine work again, but overall the Mustang will again be in second place because of it's aged platform.
The only way out of this situation is to justify a Lincoln platform that needs RWD or a longitudinal placement AWD so that it can be shared. It'd be hard to see that happening given the current Lincoln direction... and now Lincoln even has the torque-proportioning rear differential from the Focus RS that makes new AWD+400 HP MKZ and Continental drive almost like RWD cars - but with far better traction under any and all conditions.
Now look at CAFE... don't assume The Donald is going to ditch it - and Hellary certainly isn't going to. Neither can. It's fact of life and it's going to have a much larger impact on the S650.
So this is what Ford has to wrestle with. Therefore don't look to the S650 to be a major leap forward.

 

[Charles147]

Let's hope that the S650 is not just another evolution of the platform that goes back to the late nineties. But it likely will be.
The DEW98 was a world-class platform... but was then dumbed down into the S197... loosing all the good suspension bits. And then upgraded into the S550 with better suspension bits but everything else was mostly carryover.
All these cars share the same lineage - and therefore limitations. The S550 inherited the the S197 engine placement, less than optimal, all the H-points, and the entire steel structure (minus a slight improvement in the A-pillars). Other than that, it's the same underneath. It's heavy overall, fairly nose-heavy, with poor interior room. An entirely new from-scratch platform is needed here.... will Ford ever spend the money?
GM is spending it... they had the Zeta platform, now the Alpha platform (world class), and they will use the Alpha 2 platform update for the next round. All by the 2020 timeframe.
Alpha architecturally is a far better platform than S550. And it benefits from all of the considerable amount of engineering that was done for the CTS and ATS that share the platform (and perhaps a Buick coming up). These three cars will go lockstep into the 2020s together, each benefiting.
If Ford had continued developing the DEW98, this is where we'd by now. But until the decision to spend major development dollars (>6B$) is finally made by Ford executives - if it is at all - we're just going to have to keep on getting half-measures like the S550 was. That means a heavy car, no fundamental changes to incorporate major aluminum structural components, that means no room for a hybrid motor+battery (combine that with the 2.3EB and you have more torque than the current 5.0), and that again means an inefficient interior. There will be heroic engine work again, but overall the Mustang will again be in second place because of it's aged platform.
The only way out of this situation is to justify a Lincoln platform that needs RWD or a longitudinal placement AWD so that it can be shared. It'd be hard to see that happening given the current Lincoln direction... and now Lincoln even has the torque-proportioning rear differential from the Focus RS that makes new AWD+400 HP MKZ and Continental drive almost like RWD cars - but with far better traction under any and all conditions.
Now look at CAFE... don't assume The Donald is going to ditch it - and Hellary certainly isn't going to. Neither can. It's fact of life and it's going to have a much larger impact on the S650.
So this is what Ford has to wrestle with. Therefore don't look to the S650 to be a major leap forward.

Don't think the Camaro is much of a major leap forward either.

 

[S550Boss]

Drive it against the previous gen and you'll see a surprising difference. I was very surprised and I already knew all about the Alpha platform and had driven variations of the ATS and CTS. Alpha-based Camaro is a huge improvement over the zeta-based previous gen. The 1LE demonstrates that perfectly... it will do very very well against the GT350 and it will cost considerably less. And if that doesn't do it, a Z/238 is about to be introduced.
I know we don't like this... and we don't like the Camaro mindset. But in terms of handling dynamics and engine performance, that's the way it is.

 

[mikeyjobu]

I've been trying to like the way the Camaro looks now for these reasons. I can't quite do it. That, and the outward visibility. And the additional hit to the wallet I'd get if I traded my Mustang in on one: two new-car-off-the-lot depreciation-hits in less than a year. Nope. Not gonna do it. Wouldn't be prudent. Besides, I don't plan for my car to remain stock...

 

[Spartan]

Don't think the Camaro is much of a major leap forward either.

The Camaro is a pretty big leap forward in the segment (don't involve design here).

You have a $37k car competing and besting cars in the $50K+ range. I'm a Ford guy but I can admit Chevy did a hell of a job with the engineering on the new Camaro. Sure they have a bigger parts bin but what they've done is pretty amazing.

I've been trying to like the way the Camaro looks now for these reasons. I can't quite do it. That, and the outward visibility. And the additional hit to the wallet I'd get if I traded my Mustang in on one: two new-car-off-the-lot depreciation-hits in less than a year. Nope. Not gonna do it. Wouldn't be prudent. Besides, I don't plan for my car to remain stock...

The killer for me is the belt line and the mouse ears. If they dropped the drivers console down to the level of the rest of the dash the forward visibility would be pretty much the same as the Mustang. But the side ones/rear seat is what kills it.

 

[Fleeger]

I think part of the reason Chevy can make such big leaps in improvement on their cars is that they have to develop platforms that are shared between many brands so they have more funds and resources to put in the car. Ford doesn't have near the resources or funds that Chevy has.

 

[Zelek]

I've been trying to like the way the Camaro looks now for these reasons. I can't quite do it. That, and the outward visibility. And the additional hit to the wallet I'd get if I traded my Mustang in on one: two new-car-off-the-lot depreciation-hits in less than a year. Nope. Not gonna do it. Wouldn't be prudent. Besides, I don't plan for my car to remain stock...

I've been a huge Camaro fan for years. I was honestly very excited for the 2016 release because of how fat the 5th gen was and GM promised a weight loss. They came through with that and created a car that performs outstandingly on the track.

What is not talked about is the daily driving aspect much. The car has some pretty high complaints in that area regarding visibility and a rough ride. I don't know about most of you, but I spend a lot of my time daily driving more than I do on the race track. I've also had various friends and owners tell me I will enjoy a more comfortable drive in the Mustang as its more practical for the daily drive.

Also, a port injected engine isn't a bad thing... especially when it comes to FI. Direct Injection is great and all, but fighting a knock sensor on such high compression can be a difficult task. More risk on damaging the engine as well, but then you will have the people who won't have a single issue with it at all. It's just tougher to run higher boost on high compression.

Do I still like the Camaro? Absolutely. I just like the Mustang more for what I would use it for which probably also explains why the Mustang sells so well for its price point. Sticker shock gets a lot of the Camaro buyers.

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