Steeda claims it, is it real world?

[ZXMustang]

Thats really disappointing. No wonder so many DH owners get salty when this comes up. I still maintain the only reason to get a DH is for the Tremec.

To me I LOVE the DH look and for the manual guys yes the tremec is a big win. But $20k+ more worth it? No way. There are a few other slight differences as well, but the DH still suffers from heat issues on track so even if you were a track rat, then you are still getting the short end of the stick here.

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[ZXMustang]

Funny tho, when I compare the 23 GT and Mach 1 from the S550 gen, the mach has quite a bit more in the cal compared to the GT. Throttle body opens more, spark changes, modeled airflow differences. The mach 1 from last gen is like a GT with their FRPP performance pack. With the CAI and FRPP cal. I see GTs with that performance pack installed and their cals are identical to the OEM mach 1 cals. At least ford did something with those.

 

[robvas]

Yes. But I think all gen 4 coyotes have forged cranks IIRC.

All Coyotes have forged cranks.

According to the information, the GT has a Billet Crank, not forged. The Darkhorse is forged.

What information is that? The GT doesn't have a billet crank. Those would cost ten times as much as the OEM forged crank. They wouldn't stick them in a production GT.

I've seem something where Ford called the connecting rods sinter-forged, specifically in the GT500 and I know they say they're the same for the DH.

I believe the Gen 4 Coyote is still using the same rods from the Boss 302 engine, gen 2 coyote, and gen 3 coyote. They are powdered metal or sinter-forged.

The DH and GT500/DHSC have a different rod, but it's still powdered metal or sinter-forged

They aren't what people typically thing of when they say forged rod (insert picture of a Manley H beam rod here), but guys have made 1,200-1,300hp with the stock block on those GT500's.

 

[AZ_Ryan]

To me I LOVE the DH look and for the manual guys yes the tremec is a big win. But $20k+ more worth it? No way. There are a few other slight differences as well, but the DH still suffers from heat issues on track so even if you were a track rat, then you are still getting the short end of the stick here.

Well, there isnt a 20k difference. At least not from an optioned out GT PP. Especially now with all the deals to be had.

 

[ZXMustang]

Well, there isnt a 20k difference. At least not from an optioned out GT PP. Especially now with all the deals to be had.

Thats true in terms of straight money from GTPP to DH. Maybe back when the DH was commanding a premium over sticker. But nowadays yes you can get DHs for invoice.

 

[D/\rK•650]

Wow,! Thanks for posting the tune tables ect ,ZXMustang. I love learning about stuff like this. Well not learning but very interesting to see behind the scenes a little if you will. I wondered how that works with tuning. Like how they hold back the GT then let it go for the DH. But I wonder how they'd do if differently on a car with the same motor. Not to many ways to do it i guess.

 

[ZXMustang]

Wow,! Thanks for posting the tune tables ect ,ZXMustang. I love learning about stuff like this. Well not learning but very interesting to see behind the scenes a little if you will. I wondered how that works with tuning. Like how they hold back the GT then let it go for the DH. But I wonder how they'd do if differently on a car with the same motor. Not to many ways to do it i guess.

Lots of ways. Spark mainly. Less aggressive cam angles, trans side rpm limits, less aggressive shift schedules. It’s how we limit power for folks with 91 access only vs 93. Tad leaner and more spark for 93. Less and more rich at wot for 91. But you can compensate in other places to even it out. The ford pcm is very smart and when you learn how to leverage its decision making, then you can paint it into a tuning corner and coerce it to do what you want.

 

[D/\rK•650]

To me I LOVE the DH look and for the manual guys yes the tremec is a big win. But $20k+ more worth it? No way. There are a few other slight differences as well, but the DH still suffers from heat issues on track so even if you were a track rat, then you are still getting the short end of the stick here.

I wonder how much they suffer from heat issues? I will say this when I was romping on mine on a twisty out here. It was pretty hot day and I pushed it pretty hard on a straight uphill and it seemed like it lost a bit when climbing. I have not actually tracked it maybe someone that has can chime in? Do you think it has heat issues more than any other stock setup? I mean in the way engines all suffer when too hot.

 

[D/\rK•650]

This stuff is so awesome . Sorry to be tacky can't help it. Very neat.

 

[Zig]

… And in steeda's case, I assume

I wanna say i saw/read somewhere they might have consulted with
(https://www.mustang7g.com/forums/threads/fastest-naturally-aspirated-coyote-5-5l-10-000-rpm.178202/)

a time or two.
https://www.mustang7g.com/forums/threads/steedas-full-recap-of-testing-tune.169660/

 

[ZXMustang]

I wonder how much they suffer from heat issues? I will say this when I was romping on mine on a twisty out here. It was pretty hot day and I pushed it pretty hard on a straight uphill and it seemed like it lost a bit when climbing. I have not actually tracked it maybe someone that has can chime in? Do you think it has heat issues more than any other stock setup? I mean in the way engines all suffer when too hot.

It’s the cat over temp settings running you pig rich at wot.

 

[Achlys]

For my understanding... my non-PP with active exhaust is 14HP away from a DH, for at the time I purchased my GT at $20K less than a DH? And, with a tune I can achieve over DH HP? Granted, extended high output could have a negative effect. For $20K I can purchase a nice planted GT and have $ to spare? Makes sense why Ford came out with the DHSC, or does it?

 

[DHGOOD]

Back to the initial topic of this conversation. I drive(and run the shit out of) both cars every week. I drive the GT every day and the DH on the weekend. Both have the Steeda H-pipe and no other mods. The Dark Horse is a different animal and mostly because of the gearing, both transmission and rear differential/tire dia. The DH has to be shifted shifted shifted and shifted. It is screaming and there’s very little pull time in the gears. The GT pulls second and third for what I consider a more ‘normal’ amount of time and to 7400(I’ve not felt or heard a rev limiter). Third gear in the GT will get you thrown in jail on two lane roads in a passing zone if the law pops over the horizon. I don’t know about PP GT cars, maybe they have 3.73s but my GT has 3.55s and 20s vs. the 73s and 19s on my DH. My DH is quicker faster.

I don’t doubt they have the same HP and that tuner is cool but Steeda should run the two cars against each other a couple different ways in the video. If they‘re gonna compare ‘em, compare ‘em.

 

[tktrain]

Add up all the extras you need to build a GT into a Dark Horse. There's a whole lot more going on than connecting rods. Magneride, wheels, the tires. Some stuff is even exclusive to the Dark Horse.

Bottom line: compare apples to apples.

 

[71stang99]

Add up all the extras you need to build a GT into a Dark Horse. There's a whole lot more going on than connecting rods. Magneride, wheels, the tires. Some stuff is even exclusive to the Dark Horse.

Bottom line: compare apples to apples.

My (used) 2024 GT has every option aside from painted calipers and the sticker was 68k. The difference between it and the DH is far closer than my old 2003 Cobra and the 2003 GT with respect to performance and uogrades. Times and business models change, I guess.

I actually came across my 2003 Cobra dyno, the car with mods had HP numbers close to the 2024 dyno numbers I see online for a stock 2024+ GT.

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