Steeda claims it, is it real world?

[AZ_Ryan]

IMO it's not the power, sure, they make nearly the same when tuned. The part people gleam over is that the DH is a STRONGER engine. The DH has forged internals, the same as the GT500 and the DHSC. Also, the things that you get standard with the DH is a reason to buy.

This is why you can choose your weapon. This is why you can get everything from a 2.3 Ecoboost to the now available DHSC. Buy the vehicle that fits your needs.

Also, if they had called the Darkhorse a Cobra, would it have changed anything? Is a name that much credence to what the vehicle actually has to perform? For me, that is a no. Purchase the vehicle for what performance matrix it has and what it is capable of.

One last note: do people know why the Darkhorse name was picked? A Darkhorse is something that no one sees coming and wins. Ford understood this, and this is why we have the Darkhorse. A vehicle nobody saw coming that can win.

Forged internals is always the go-to defense of the Dark Horse owner. Unfortunately these people are relying on a lot of misinformation from the internet. As far as I know, only the connecting rods are forged. And it seems that is even open for debate based on the above video.

Sponsored

 

[71stang99]

Forged internals is always the go-to defense of the Dark Horse owner. Unfortunately these people are relying on a lot of misinformation from the internet. As far as I know, only the connecting rods are forged. And it seems that is even open for debate based on the above video.

If the video was correct the crank was the only forged component if I heard correctly.

 

[AZ_Ryan]

If the video was correct the crank was the only forged component if I heard correctly.

Yes. But I think all gen 4 coyotes have forged cranks IIRC.

 

[Ninjak]

Well, this is the first I have heard of the internals not being forged. I have my engine out and apart for the OSS, so I might as well take a look for myself. From my understanding, the connecting rods and crankshaft are forged; the pistons were not. Though the Ford brochures said pistons, it would seem they have the same setup as the GT500.

Even so, I purchased a DH because I wanted another vehicle that was like my GT350. This is it. I did not want the manual in the GT, which we all know has its own problems; I wanted the Tremec. That alone would have been worth it to buy the DH. Also, for the use I have set the car up for, it again made more sense to buy the DH. I did not buy it for drag racing. I could have kept my GT500 for that.

Yes. But I think all gen 4 coyotes have forged cranks IIRC.

According to the information, the GT has a Billet Crank, not forged. The Darkhorse is forged.

 

[krisk]

The DH does not have forged internals. You will not be able to find any reliable source other than repeated forum and FB posts of misinformation. Many shops have torn them down just to find they don't have forged internals.

The Dark Horse long block specs show forged crankshaft and connecting rods. https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-6006-M50DH

 

[Twizzty]

I've seem something where Ford called the connecting rods sinter-forged, specifically in the GT500 and I know they say they're the same for the DH. Maybe that's where the confusion came from, sinter-forged vs. forged...but they are not the same thing.

 

[krisk]

Well, this is the first I have heard of the internals not being forged. I have my engine out and apart for the OSS, so I might as well take a look for myself. From my understanding, the connecting rods and crankshaft are forged; the pistons were not. Though the Ford brochures said pistons, it would seem they have the same setup as the GT500.

Even so, I purchased a DH because I wanted another vehicle that was like my GT350. This is it. I did not want the manual in the GT, which we all know has its own problems; I wanted the Tremec. That alone would have been worth it to buy the DH. Also, for the use I have set the car up for, it again made more sense to buy the DH. I did not buy it for drag racing. I could have kept my GT500 for that.

According to the information, the GT has a Billet Crank, not forged. The Darkhorse is forged.

I've seem something where Ford called the connecting rods sinter-forged, specifically in the GT500 and I know they say they're the same for the DH. Maybe that's where the confusion came from, sinter-forged vs. forged...but they are not the same thing.

The specs on the Gen4 Mustang GT crate engine list a forged steel crankshaft.

The connecting rods on the GT are listed as sintered steel versus forged steel on the Dark Horse engine specs.
https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-6007-M50D

 

[D/\rK•650]

Crazy stuff. .

 

[Jdio]

And yes the DH and GT once tuned properly are the same power wise. People with DH think they got some higher end engine with more power and all they got was a GT with less tq management. The calibrations are identical except for a few tq management tables where the GT has more. And if you get a PP GT then they are even closer 1:1 except those tq management tables. If you want a DH, buy it for the name and the other toys you get like standard mag ride and different look body parts and the cool wheels. But not for power. Tuned GT will be faster than stock DH, and a tuned DH vs GT should be just about identical car depending.

pretty sure only difference is forged crank, connecting rods and pistons and why does manual have 6 more horse?

 

[ZXMustang]

pretty sure only difference is forged crank, connecting rods and pistons and why does manual have 6 more horse?

Less tq management and active exhaust adds 6hp. If you look at the manual v auto the manual has that much less tq management in the table values.

 

[AZ_Ryan]

Ford put a

pretty sure only difference is forged crank, connecting rods and pistons and why does manual have 6 more horse?

We've already established the DH DOES NOT have forged pistons. Read above.

 

[ZXMustang]

Ive showed this before, but this is the only real difference between a GTPP 10R80 and a DH 10R80. Dont get tripped up on the actual numbers because its modeled tq, but this is why the DH has "more" hp than the GT, and only why.

GTPP Tq management table

DH Tq management table

Difference between

And this is a FULL COMPARE between both the GTPP 10R80 and the DH 10R80 and these are the only differences. No fueling, no spark, no cam angles, no power changes of any kind just the GT has more tq management to hold it down a bit more than the DH. The DH also has active exhaust differences in the amount of flaps open at various modes/pedal demand scenarios. So thats it. A real let down once I saw my first DH calibration. I was like Fcking ford, they stickered up a GT and are charging you $20k more. And even worse, the GT is a watered down DH... Sorry folks.

 

[ZXMustang]

And you ask, well how do you turn a GT into a DH and how can they both make the same power once tuned? Well like this...LOL When we are all special, then nobody is special...

 

[ZXMustang]

And oh you got a whipple GT or DH with the whipple calibration, this is what they do. Straight from their cal. This is how you uncap the car and unchain it from Fords suffocating tq management. At least from the engine side. There are hundreds of other places you need to tweak to get the most performance out of a tune. And in steeda's case, I assume its only been slightly removed and slight spark and fueling changes to account for the masses and country wide shit gas. 91+ safe one can only guess. I could be wrong on their intentions but I cant see them selling 93+ tuning packages to the country where most dont have 93.

 

[AZ_Ryan]

Thats really disappointing. No wonder so many DH owners get salty when this comes up. I still maintain the only reason to get a DH is for the Tremec.

Sponsored