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S650 is out there somewhere, isn't she?

Sivi70980

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My guess is pandemic delays. My theory that most will hate is that they may just skip a year to release anything new. But I don't know if that even a real possibility fiscally or otherwise.
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gadgtfreek

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I figured it would just skip a year.
 

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Well on Matt Maran Motoring 2 days ago he said:

  • 650 is a heavy refresh of the 550, not a redesign
  • EcoBoost, 5.0, and Predator all carry over
  • Voodoo goes bye bye

So about what many have been expecting.
 
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Twin Turbo

Twin Turbo

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I guess we'll only know once S650 is finally released............I'm still expecting at least a level of changes we saw from '09 to '10......although I suspect it'll be more than that.

But, my goodness, the waiting is excruciating!!! 😩
 

StangGang93

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I’m sure we’ll see new sleek sheet metal, more aggressive headlights/taillights based off the Mach E & updated tech in the interior.
 


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To correct myself, S650 is definitely not apples to apples in terms of the transition from S197 to S550.

S550 was virtually an all new car and I apologize if I tried to say different before. I find it so annoying how outside of Ford, the automotive industry and intelligence poorly identify the differences and call it the same platform.

Apparently it isn't, but yes there are definitely still shared stuff, but it's so minimal and Dave Pericak wasn't lying for marketing spiel like I thought.

I am getting some intel, that S650 production begins in December 2022. When Ford had plans to begin Bronco production on December 7, 2020 and reveal it before that on March 13, 2020, they allowed the first spy shots on January 14, 2020, almost 11 months before production. It got delayed of course.

If December 2022 is accurate, then maybe we won't see anything until January in camo.

Looking at the new Ranger, they've been running them for a long time, but nobody saw them until January 2021. They did that because they expected a late 2021/early 2022 prod. start for ROW version, USA late 2022. That got delayed too.
 

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My guess, based on absolutely nothing, is that the biggest changes will be with the interior. The Mach E, whatever else might be said about it, has a noticeably sleeker and higher quality interior than a gt premium. My guess is that the new mustang interior will be very similar since it is easier to “radically” change the inside than the mechanical components
 
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To correct myself, S650 is definitely not apples to apples in terms of the transition from S197 to S550.

S550 was virtually an all new car and I apologize if I tried to say different before. I find it so annoying how outside of Ford, the automotive industry and intelligence poorly identify the differences and call it the same platform.

Apparently it isn't, but yes there are definitely still shared stuff, but it's so minimal and Dave Pericak wasn't lying for marketing spiel like I thought.

I am getting some intel, that S650 production begins in December 2022. When Ford had plans to begin Bronco production on December 7, 2020 and reveal it before that on March 13, 2020, they allowed the first spy shots on January 14, 2020, almost 11 months before production. It got delayed of course.

If December 2022 is accurate, then maybe we won't see anything until January in camo.

Looking at the new Ranger, they've been running them for a long time, but nobody saw them until January 2021. They did that because they expected a late 2021/early 2022 prod. start for ROW version, USA late 2022. That got delayed too.
Thank you......it's always a good day when you share your intel, it's much appreciated!
 

IceGamer

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Well on Matt Maran Motoring 2 days ago he said:

  • 650 is a heavy refresh of the 550, not a redesign
  • EcoBoost, 5.0, and Predator all carry over
  • Voodoo goes bye bye

So about what many have been expecting.
He also said that the transmissions would carry over and that a hybrid won’t be available from the get go but rather be introduced with the refresh in ~2025.
That in in line with Ford Europe saying that they will only sell hybrids and full EVs from 2026 onwards. What a coincidence…

Regarding the transmissions I would expect the Ford marketing to come up with a “revised” 10-speed automatic, as well as the “newest version of magnet ride”. I don’t know if the MT-82 will carry over but I hope not. There is/was a class action lawsuit when they switched the Tremec for the cheaper MT-82 and it might be cheaper for low volume sales (I would assume that most buyers go for the AT) to only offer the Tremec that is in the current Mach1. Having one inventory is cheaper than having two but if the MT-82 is selling well why should they ditch it…?
 

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Yeah I think a 10spd change and magneride update could easily be expected.
 

Stonehauler

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At this point, they may be waiting for the chip shortage issue to start going away before doing anything. Like it or not, most vehicles have a surprisingly high number of computer chips in them, and designing things like displays, controls, etc. require companies to know what will be available.
If anything, I would expect a new vehicle to use even more semi-conductors than previous versions, so they might be trying to prevent supply problems for the new model and the inevitable initial supply rush. Delaying a year might be in their best interest in order to get the highest prices out of them.

I drove through Michigan a month or so ago, and I saw a large number of vehicles being stored there, awaiting their computers. If they don't get them soon, a lot of those MY2021s will be sold in 2022, possibly diminishing their value even though they are "new". That glut of 2021s will also put downward pressure on MY 2022 vehicle prices too.

I would not be overly shocked if Ford pushed the whole vehicle back a year to 2024 and added in the hybrid version from the very start, or even add a complete electric drive train option. Of course, this is just wild speculation on my part.
 

IceGamer

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At this point, they may be waiting for the chip shortage issue to start going away before doing anything. Like it or not, most vehicles have a surprisingly high number of computer chips in them, and designing things like displays, controls, etc. require companies to know what will be available.
If anything, I would expect a new vehicle to use even more semi-conductors than previous versions, so they might be trying to prevent supply problems for the new model and the inevitable initial supply rush. Delaying a year might be in their best interest in order to get the highest prices out of them.

I drove through Michigan a month or so ago, and I saw a large number of vehicles being stored there, awaiting their computers. If they don't get them soon, a lot of those MY2021s will be sold in 2022, possibly diminishing their value even though they are "new". That glut of 2021s will also put downward pressure on MY 2022 vehicle prices too.

I would not be overly shocked if Ford pushed the whole vehicle back a year to 2024 and added in the hybrid version from the very start, or even add a complete electric drive train option. Of course, this is just wild speculation on my part.
That doesn’t make much sense to me. Test vehicles and mules barely need any semiconductors. They’re one-offs, no mass products. I’m sure Ford can spare a few parts for future cash cows and poster cars ;)

Besides, the chip shortage is partially based on the fact that even modern cars use the oldest technology available… There is no shortage of modern chips fabricated in 7nm or above but there is a shortage of old ass 60 and 90nm chips… Intel Pentium 4 and stuff was built on 90nm and that was almost 15 years ago. They want us to spend 50K, 80K or 150K on a car but refuse to build in tech that is state of the art… Ever wondered why your 2018 C63 AMG has an old ass infotainment system that was outdated before it was new? Some will say it has to do with reliability whereas I would argue that that’s not an argument. No one is expecting you to use the newest (and therefore untested) products. Those are reserved for smartphones anyway… However, use the technology that was state of the art last year or the year before. The advantages of carmakers is that they have almost unlimited space available. They don’t have to crunch everything in a tiny mobile phone. They can use active and passive cooling systems and therefore increase the reliability of such chips. They don’t because it’s “too” expensive… Well, keep saving a few cents on a chip that prevents you from selling a car for 100000$.
 

Law_Stu

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Jalopnik actually had a good article last week about why car manufacturers can’t just switch to newer chips. Basically they control so many safety features that updating them requires completely starting over all safety testing.
An interviewee said that trying to update chips while making a new car basically doubles the whole project’s cost. So I imagine the chip shortage will affect the 650 as much as the 550.


https://jalopnik.com/i-asked-experts-why-carmakers-cant-just-transition-to-n-1847739665/amp
 

IceGamer

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Jalopnik actually had a good article last week about why car manufacturers can’t just switch to newer chips. Basically they control so many safety features that updating them requires completely starting over all safety testing.
An interviewee said that trying to update chips while making a new car basically doubles the whole project’s cost. So I imagine the chip shortage will affect the 650 as much as the 550.


https://jalopnik.com/i-asked-experts-why-carmakers-cant-just-transition-to-n-1847739665/amp
That’s not how I read the article…

It was an interesting article indeed but it focusses more on future improvements rather than on the ongoing chip shortage. Carmakers always struggle to implement new stuff. It took like what – 100 years – before the first redesign of the dashboard occurred? I think the Mercedes S- or E-class were the first cars to rethink the dashboard. Using “one” big screen with digital indicators rather than an integrated dashboard with analog indicators. And of course the Tesla Model S with its big vertical screen.
I’m not saying that I like any of that stuff but up until then basically every car had the same dashboard. Fast forward to 2021 and we have several unique designs. It just took us a few decades ;)

It’s the same reason why carmakers build cars the way they did build them 100 years ago. They could’ve started implementing computer-tech 30 years ago. They could’ve set up a teams that focus solely on software development and creating one internal system… But they didn’t because that would’ve been expensive at first. They rather focused on implementing an increasing amount of individual systems from external partners and of course they can’t test all these systems all by themselves if they would want to upgrade some hardware. Some cars have up to 100 control units…

I’m not a Tesla fanboy or like their cars but that is something they discovered a long time ago: it’s better to do everything (the most important things) in-house than acquiring several external parts and patch them together somehow.

Our carmakers will get there it’ll just take a decade or so. Assembling a team, writing the codes and creating a fully functional system takes it time and is easier achieved with cars that have less moving parts ;)
 

amk91

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I'm with you TT. Where the hell are the mules? Need some signs of life!
Oh, we definitely don't want more mules at this point. I want full fledged prototypes out and about, that confirm what I saw for me, once and for all.

I am actually in no hurry to see the s650. I would rather see Ford upgrade the current Mustang and make it perfect. If Roush can get 775 horsepower out of the Coyote engine with a supercharger , I would think Ford can do as well.
No thank you. The interior is getting tired and I want to see improvements after 8 years, as originally promised by Bill Ford and Mulally in 2014 (One Ford). 2018 wasn't enough of an update like 2010, to last the rest of 8 year run, so it's time.

They even did more updates for 2013, after 3 years. We never got worthwhile refresh for 2021, which would help keep it fresh.


It's weird. But maybe they are really running these things at night. Or, maybe they're just testing with run of the mill S550 bodies since the S650 won't be much different.

Regardless, I hope this turns out to be one of those "good things happen to those who wait" scenarios.
  1. Bold is 100% accurate. Only on proving grounds and night rounds in desolate areas, where people may or may not see them.

All of this is a photographer issue and not so much a lack of testing going on. Automakers are nowadays the end-all be-all in coverage, in ensuring none of their prototype vehicles are noticed in public until a given date.​

It used to be, they'd truly get spied on unexpectedly, but they've gotten much bigger control over the narrative I've noticed. How? Almost all spy shots, are now a marketing drip feed tease today or taken candidly, in the most obvious testing spots like the Nurburgring.​

  1. (2) Going back to my text in grey, photographers are mysteriously missing these vehicles, to the point amateurs are noticing them first instead.

I remember how shocked I was, a highly anticipated Acura redesign was caught winter testing by a Hellcat owner, WAY before anyone saw it in actual spy shots. Said so much about how this really works.​

And recently, the anticapted replacement for a 14 year old Toyota. What it means? All these professional spy photographers are dropping the ball BIG time and these vehicles are basically out there testing, but they are mysteriously missing them or hoarding their coverage, via payoff (alternate theory, but not proven)​

My guess is pandemic delays. My theory that most will hate is that they may just skip a year to release anything new. But I don't know if that even a real possibility fiscally or otherwise.
I have heard that Ford is "on hold" internally in some ways, regarding MY 2023. But considering the source, I don't fully agree. They are still moving forward in many cases.

Well on Matt Maran Motoring 2 days ago he said:

  • 650 is a heavy refresh of the 550, not a redesign
  • EcoBoost, 5.0, and Predator all carry over
  • Voodoo goes bye bye

So about what many have been expecting.
Wow, seems he is the only consistent semi-pro/professional source going forward.

This knowledge has been known no? S650 is a day late and needs to be a little more than a heavy refresh. It's an all new tophat, with only a few hard points retained from S550.

S550 is as much the "same platform" as an S197 is the same as DEW98. Or that my Charger is "basically an old Mercedes". People use that word all the time, but I do not think it means what they think it means.

Mandy_patinkin_reference.jpg
The difference is, my description refers strictly to "elite" professional coverage beyond opinion pieces in magazines or automotive blogs. And not so much enthusiasts casually commenting. Mostly paid subscriptions for industry experts, in terms of D2C/D5, that list S550 under the same platform as S197.

I cringe similarly when the above example you gave, has been mentioned by them.

I learned a lot too in the same fashion, at how the Dodge Charger LD (production ends in late 2023) launched early 2011, under FCA slowly removed many DaimlerChrysler era MB components and replaced them with new supplier sourcing to reduce licensing costs.

However, when you look at stuff like the switchgear, it's still very Mercedes-Benz in some places. How honest was FCA being?
S650 Mustang S650 is out there somewhere, isn't she? s-l640 (1)

S650 Mustang S650 is out there somewhere, isn't she? 86257330



S650 Mustang S650 is out there somewhere, isn't she? mercedes-benz_s_55_amg_us-spec_2

S650 Mustang S650 is out there somewhere, isn't she? Polish_20211005_114005648

The LX cars were always based on the early 2000s S-Class and E-Class, yet I heard BS for years like they were instead based on this mid-90s vehicle (third photo).

S650 Mustang S650 is out there somewhere, isn't she? mercedes-benz_e-class_sedan_2

Often based on some fake ass rumor mill, created by snobbish MT or C&D to elevate MB's prestige (they wouldn't "dare" share with Detroit). Whether with the Grand Cherokee or Charger, it's often been this round of hand-me-down BS.

I don't think anyone has referred to DEW98 being exactly the same as the S197 LOL lately, as that's probably the worst example of those you mentioned (only in the most uninformed Mustang circles).

A lot of big dollar automotive databases and market projection sites (for years now), list D2C/D5 as the platform for BOTH S197 and S550. It's somewhat frustrating, being that I know Ford claimed for 2015 it was "all-new" and next to nothing carried over from the S197.

Yet people who saw it secretly in clay in 2012, instantly "knew" upon first sight, it was a "heavy redo" based on the hard points...

Maybe it's just one of those things, where a new platform basis is developed, yet styling similarities are kept for familiarity purposes, like the 2016 Camaro.

A lot of people said the Mustang was held back by its architecture not being fully new, unlike the Alpha Camaro.

My guess, based on absolutely nothing, is that the biggest changes will be with the interior. The Mach E, whatever else might be said about it, has a noticeably sleeker and higher quality interior than a gt premium. My guess is that the new mustang interior will be very similar since it is easier to “radically” change the inside than the mechanical components
That's where it should be focused, new interior. The only aspect of it I don't know about yet.

Nice interior on S550, but I do get tired of the criticisms people often seem to have, especially in ROW. Rattling or "cheap" plastic.

Why are they expecting an interior on the level of a C63 AMG coupe? Or BMW M4? I dunno. It's such stupid logic, fishing for reasons to complain.

The irrational complaints and comparisons can get to be too much, even GTs are getting to be very expensive for what you do get. My fully loaded GT Premium topped out at $48k, before X-Plan.

Now it's just under $60k, if you ignore the Mach 1. My main issue with Hellcats, as they don't differentiate it enough for halo trim levels nor offer Recaros like at least Ford and GM do.

Ultimately, speaking in past tense (Ford has already designed everything at this point), I hope they did a great job as possible on the new interior.

Unlike the Mach E, they cannot design an interior which dilutes the Mustang lineage for Mustang Faithful or core segment buyer. People still want a modern, tasteful interior with subtle to overtly masculine design. The Mach E interior isn't that, so they better have kept that in mind.

Having too milque toast or "vanilla" an interior, will piss off many Mustang faithful unfortunately. Mach E leans in that direction, because of the Tesla influence. It's good to target that market for an EV product, but not so much for the typical Mustang or ICE high performance shopper.

Thank you......it's always a good day when you share your intel, it's much appreciated!
Aw, thanks. I have been MIA, because I lost two megaposts and it was really hard to recreate them. I need to be more mindful of losing stuff when typing out anything.

The info I do have is still to be taken with a grain, as stuff changes I guess. Interesting to see nonetheless, as it matches what I learned many months ago.

It will launch in early 2023 it seems, just like the past few MYs of 2021 and 2022, but maybe 1 month earlier.

He also said that the transmissions would carry over and that a hybrid won’t be available from the get go but rather be introduced with the refresh in ~2025.
That in in line with Ford Europe saying that they will only sell hybrids and full EVs from 2026 onwards. What a coincidence…

Regarding the transmissions I would expect the Ford marketing to come up with a “revised” 10-speed automatic, as well as the “newest version of magnet ride”. I don’t know if the MT-82 will carry over but I hope not. There is/was a class action lawsuit when they switched the Tremec for the cheaper MT-82 and it might be cheaper for low volume sales (I would assume that most buyers go for the AT) to only offer the Tremec that is in the current Mach1. Having one inventory is cheaper than having two but if the MT-82 is selling well why should they ditch it…?
This information was heard months ago right? It's not new, but I guess it's just further confirmation and not just a repeat of the same source.

The hybrid info doesn't make sense to me at all, because the media reports never seem to line up with lifecycle projection for S650.

The new car launches during MY 2023, in early 2023. Too many American sources, never seem to get their own MY system and are quoting a bunch of BS. Typically, new models appear toward the end of the previous year, wearing next year's designation (2022 in Sep 2021).

Ford has broken this rule of theirs, popularized with their 1965 Mustang. For the past two MYs, it's been same-MY, same-CY for the Mustang.

I keep seeing that this hybrid will come "for 2025", which doesn't make sense, as the S650 ends production in late 2028. "For 2025" = end of 2024 or early 2025.

Ford typically favors a 3-4 year run with minimal changes, before doing an refresh (or MCA?), like the 2018 model (late 2017 USA, 2018-19 ROW).

If the news is to be believed, the hybrid is for MY 2026 in late 2025 and has been delayed from original plans for MY 2021 (when CD6 based), because in light of new Euro legislation, maybe they want to further perfect the hybrid I guess and pushed it back.

Or it is like the F150 EV, which comes 1.5 years after the regular 2021 F150 did in December 2020.

As for transmissions, they definitely need to make some worthwhile improvements after 5 years.

MT-82 isn't the world's best and to be honest, manual V8s have always been a challenge to drive for me at least. Even in super slick BMW gearboxes. The amount of torque they handle, I guess makes them harder to shift without some muscle being applied compared to 4 cyls and 6 cylinders.

My legs almost died driving a modified Challenger SRT8 with the most ridiculous clutch and my cousin's GT350 (my intel source).

Hope to drive an old V12 manual in the BMW 8-Series or Aston Martins for comparison, before they all are in the scrapyard permanently.

6 cylinder and 4 cylinder manuals in high performance applications, tend to be much more slick than V8s and V10s. Not surprised about the "muscle" connotation in muscle cars for that reason.

At this point, they may be waiting for the chip shortage issue to start going away before doing anything. Like it or not, most vehicles have a surprisingly high number of computer chips in them, and designing things like displays, controls, etc. require companies to know what will be available.
If anything, I would expect a new vehicle to use even more semi-conductors than previous versions, so they might be trying to prevent supply problems for the new model and the inevitable initial supply rush. Delaying a year might be in their best interest in order to get the highest prices out of them.

I drove through Michigan a month or so ago, and I saw a large number of vehicles being stored there, awaiting their computers. If they don't get them soon, a lot of those MY2021s will be sold in 2022, possibly diminishing their value even though they are "new". That glut of 2021s will also put downward pressure on MY 2022 vehicle prices too.

I would not be overly shocked if Ford pushed the whole vehicle back a year to 2024 and added in the hybrid version from the very start, or even add a complete electric drive train option. Of course, this is just wild speculation on my part.
Testing vehicles as IceGamer said, doesn't require much in chips as they are a very small amount of vehicles. This situation won't last forever and everyone needs to be ready to launch urgently needed new products, when it does subside.

Now, the real issue is being confident that you are ready to launch the given new vehicles, against demand and not enough chip supply.

That doesn’t make much sense to me. Test vehicles and mules barely need any semiconductors. They’re one-offs, no mass products. I’m sure Ford can spare a few parts for future cash cows and poster cars ;)

Besides, the chip shortage is partially based on the fact that even modern cars use the oldest technology available… There is no shortage of modern chips fabricated in 7nm or above but there is a shortage of old ass 60 and 90nm chips… Intel Pentium 4 and stuff was built on 90nm and that was almost 15 years ago. They want us to spend 50K, 80K or 150K on a car but refuse to build in tech that is state of the art… Ever wondered why your 2018 C63 AMG has an old ass infotainment system that was outdated before it was new? Some will say it has to do with reliability whereas I would argue that that’s not an argument. No one is expecting you to use the newest (and therefore untested) products. Those are reserved for smartphones anyway… However, use the technology that was state of the art last year or the year before. The advantages of carmakers is that they have almost unlimited space available. They don’t have to crunch everything in a tiny mobile phone. They can use active and passive cooling systems and therefore increase the reliability of such chips. They don’t because it’s “too” expensive… Well, keep saving a few cents on a chip that prevents you from selling a car for 100000$.
So informative, wow thank you!!! Plus, it matches what my cousin told me and what I have been saying. The volume of prototype vehicles, hardly makes a dent in any of that.

It's more so concerns that if launch comes too soon, they won't be ready to do it full scale like the Bronco.

What's actually happening with spy shots in general, is that Ford I have noticed, is relying on the best possible measures to mask what they are doing.

Toyota recently has gotten away with hiding all their upcoming vehicles, to such a degree, you wouldn't even expect they are even being planned. It also touched light on, I something I never fully understood.

In general spy shots are a marketing mechanism in the modern era and no longer what they used to be in the magazine era of yesterday.

Automakers only allow us see what they want us to see, by giving tip offs to the guys with the lenses. Otherwise, you gotta rely on sharp eyed casual observers.

Two of the German big Three are most confident with permitting public EARLY observation of future product, while testing. The rest of the automotive world, is rather insecure and more guarded. These two manuf. openly tease them to German magazines during the design process and make them guess by renderings, then proceed to put out prototypes early on.

By comparison, the rest do not engage the media, unless closer to release. You have to rely solely on insiders, with no real media assistance.

In my opinion, spy photographers are being obtuse about S650 mules in S550 bodies and not paying much attention to them.

And casual observers are desensitized to them, since they are not heavily chopped up or camouflaged, even to the degree the first 2010 Mustang mules were in Jan 2007.

S650 Mustang S650 is out there somewhere, isn't she? 2007-42898-spy-photos-new-2009-ford-mustang1


For the 2015 F-150, from 2011/12 to early 2013, we saw mules running around in older "steel" bodies (P-415), which were so camouflaged, you wondered what Ford was hiding? New body panels?

P552 M1 Mules - 2012
S650 Mustang S650 is out there somewhere, isn't she? 2015-Ford-F-150-Aluminum-Body-mule2

S650 Mustang S650 is out there somewhere, isn't she? images (26) (1)
S650 Mustang S650 is out there somewhere, isn't she? images (26) (2)

Ford did the same thing with CD6 2020 Explorer from late 2016 to early 2018. Using pre-refresh fascia mules in 2016 (post-refresh fascia on later mules as seen second photo.)

Old sheetmetal mules for U625 Explorer - 2016
S650 Mustang S650 is out there somewhere, isn't she? 2019-ford-explorer-spy-photos (3)
S650 Mustang S650 is out there somewhere, isn't she? 2019-ford-explorer-spy-photos (4)

Later old sheetmetal mule - 2017/18

S650 Mustang S650 is out there somewhere, isn't she? Ford-Explorer-ST-Spied-1


And similar for the current Super Duty in 2014, until about mid-April 2015, which was 14-15 months before production began in July 2016 and 5 months before reveal at Texas State Fair in September 2015.

P558 SD Mule in old sheetmetal - March 2014
S650 Mustang S650 is out there somewhere, isn't she? Ford-F-Series-Super-Duty-prototype-front-three-quarter-1
S650 Mustang S650 is out there somewhere, isn't she? Ford-F-Series-Super-Duty-prototype-rear-side

First Actual P558 Prototype vehicle - April 2015
S650 Mustang S650 is out there somewhere, isn't she? Polish_20211005_174908311


Except for the white camo SD above, no actual prototypes of the real thing, just heavily disguised mules that made you wonder what was being hidden at all?


This right here below, is an example of what they hide beneath camo:


S650 Mustang S650 is out there somewhere, isn't she? Ford-F-150-SVT-Raptor-prototype-front-three-quarter-21


For the 2017 Raptor, we got these in spring-summer 2014 before the '17 Raptor was revealed as a prototype in January 2015. As you can see, they wear the new cab,, but old front and rear. After NAIAS reveal, we got these 2017 Raptor mules below running around in F-150 bodies in most of 2015.

S650 Mustang S650 is out there somewhere, isn't she? Ford-F-150-Mule-Spy-Photo-2

S650 Mustang S650 is out there somewhere, isn't she? Ford-F-150-Mule-Spy-Photo-6
S650 Mustang S650 is out there somewhere, isn't she? Ford-F-150-Mule-Spy-Photo-11
S650 Mustang S650 is out there somewhere, isn't she? Ford-F-150-Mule-Spy-Photo-14

This is what some of the early camouflaged vehicles are. Misshapen mules with parts they don't want people to see, unless the product has been revealed. So they get covered up. With S650, maybe it's not needed as much.


Real Raptor testers first appeared late 2015, ahead of December 2016 release.

S650 Mustang S650 is out there somewhere, isn't she? 244550-1


For the 2021 F-150, we can see there was next to no coverage on mules of the next gen, except for hybrid and EV mules in previous bodies, which they just happened to notice.

The first spy shots in May 2019 were not the first prototypes, but the first test units built at Dearborn Truck Plant in April 2019. In fact, the very first 2021 F-150 prototypes were built sometime in the fall of 2018 at Ford's pilot plant, after P702 design freeze in spring 2018. My source got this wrong LOL, when he realized that Allen Park Pilot Plant built the first 2021 F150s in late 2018, before Dearborn Plant.
S650 Mustang S650 is out there somewhere, isn't she? 2021-ford-f-150-spy-photo-106-1557335361 (1)


Early 2019 X1 Mules for F150 Lightning

S650 Mustang S650 is out there somewhere, isn't she? Ford-F-150-EV-Electric-Spy-Shots-March-2019-005-720x340


X0/X1 mules for the PowerBoost hybrid in April 2016 and January 2017, before design was finished in Nov 2017.
S650 Mustang S650 is out there somewhere, isn't she? Ford-F-150-PHEV-prototype-front-three-quarter-1

S650 Mustang S650 is out there somewhere, isn't she? F150 Hybrid_PHEV Mule 1
S650 Mustang S650 is out there somewhere, isn't she? F150 Hybrid_PHEV Mule 2


And these X0/X1 mules for the 2015 F-150, which were somehow different than the mysterious heavily camouflaged M1 P552 mule above with old hubcaps.
S650 Mustang S650 is out there somewhere, isn't she? 2015-Ford-F-150-Aluminum-Body-front-end-3
S650 Mustang S650 is out there somewhere, isn't she? 2015-Ford-F-150-Aluminum-Body-front-three-quarter-2
S650 Mustang S650 is out there somewhere, isn't she? 2015-Ford-F-150-Aluminum-Body-front-three-quarters-3


The real 2020 Explorer barely caught got by a casual observer in early June 2018, NOT even by professional photographers!

S650 Mustang S650 is out there somewhere, isn't she? 2020-Ford-Explorer-7Carscoops555-1-1024x554


Dan Golson, a young Detroit insider (interned at C&D, a designer), mentioned in April 2018 he was already seeing them on the Detroit highways wearing their new RWD proportions and no longer mules, but full fledged prototypes. He couldn't snap 'em unfortunately.

Yet NO professional photos of it at ALL until that regular Joe saw it in June 2018 (above) and sent it to Carscoops.
S650 Mustang S650 is out there somewhere, isn't she? 2020-ford-police-interceptor-utility-previews-new-explorer-suv-129212-7
S650 Mustang S650 is out there somewhere, isn't she? Dkjx9akW4AAe89u

Then Ford released this officially 1 week later out of consequence, then we barely first got multiples of spy shots starting in August 2018.
S650 Mustang S650 is out there somewhere, isn't she? PHOTOS01_823009999_PH_1_QFFOUOHYJSWP

Why the hell weren't they taking any, if they were out there testing since spring 2018?

Says a lot about what's happening with them nowadays...








When random guys like you and me are seeing this stuff if even nearby, but the pros aren't at all or deliberately ignoring them, it could mean months upon months, waiting for another regular joe to spot and report on it. And the media to take even longer. Are they being paid off?

TFL falls in between them (regular joes vs media pros), as the primary "spies" there (Andre & co) are much more dedicated to finding stuff out there, than other media entities, in being right near the action in CO. Seems like everyone is too close it at Ford and won't post on Ford spy shots.

Spy photographers have gotten a little too big for their britches and are missing or ignoring out there. I have many more examples I can give. Again, are they being paid off???

Plus, Ford is no longer allowing public daylight rounds of their future stuff like they did in the past, even if covered up or camouflaged.

Everything is now kept closer to vest on the prototype testing front. If it's not about +/- 12 months from Job 1, you just won't see it.

A lot of the spy photos we regularly get, are obviously marketing driven now and not as spontaneously caught as they would have you believe.

They are out there for sure, but even in psychedelic camo, people are seeing them and not knowing what they are.

You'd be surprised, how many MIA prototype spy shots are simply mislabeled or misidentified, by an ignorant observer and remain unknown or hidden to the relevant audience.

Every vehicle manufacturer to my knowledge, uses different camouflage patterns and disguising techniques for testing. From Aston Martin to Z-Whatever.

Mixing stuff up is so unnecessary, that stuff gets lost in the shuffle for months or years.

If I see a mule or prototype, I almost always know who the manufacturer is instantly, even if the model isn't yet known. The guessing game is rarely something I do on that. If I can do that as a regular enthusiast, stupid ass media should be way ahead of me.

But they aren't and their spy photographers, are becoming outpaced by us casual observers, if we are even lucky enough to catch something. What gives honestly?

BMW and Benz are the most transparent, where the minute they build mules or prototypes, you see them out in public for years on end.

All in all, we have no insiders outside of me, who saw a glimpse of what someone was working on last year at home via WhatsApp video call. That is the most frustrating part, as this was never the case with S197 and S550.

We had consistent insiders in those days. With me I only "hear" a little and only saw once the smallest glimpse, which is old news to me now.

What happened is my question? No firsthand insiders on S650, is very problematic in the first place and is the result of all this angst we all have.

It feels like no one cares about S650 much outside of a smaller minority, judging by the traffic Mustang6G got in the early days and the little traffic now here by comparison. No one seems to want to credibly touch the subject, outside of Matt Moran on the media side of things.

Ford is testing these S650 vehicles, but are not allowing spotting of them by professionals and casual observers are not noticing them at all.

Also, is it possible that truly, what Ford builds as VP cars at their pilot plant in Allen Park in Michigan, is withheld from public view until built on the factory line?

We didn't see the 2021 F150, until 2 weeks after that example in May 2019, but Allen Park was already building mules in 2017 and the real deal in late 2018.

Ford only allowed us to see the first Dearborn Plant units, as pre-COVID, they planned to start F150 production exactly 1 year later in May/June 2020 for summer 2020 launch. Cuz of COVID-19, they delayed production until Oct 2020, for Dec delivery to dealers.

It all matches up really well. No spy shots of any Ford in final shape until 12ish months out. This practice has been the case now for a long time, but lack of direct insiders makes it 10x worse. What the hell are they hiding, like it's Area 51?
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