S650 cancelled?

[Fatguy]

Formula 1

Formula 1 is over rated. But forgive me for being a bit biased here.

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[Timeless]

One of the smart things that Hackett could do is delete the production limits on the GT

You won't get $400K for a Ford without limited production.

Hopefully what they learn on the GT will filter down to other models in the future.

 

[jake_zx2]

Should have created a mustang to race in place of the ford GT. Nice to see it in the form of the GT4 now.

Ford's reason for building the GT is that a mustang chassis would cost billions of dollars to develop to be competitive at Le Mans and they would get absolutely no return on it, as $500k mustangs probably wouldn't sell very well in the public market. Therefore, they developed a clean slate chassis that they could make a production version of to make back some of their money. with around 1000 GTs slated to be made at AT LEAST $400k each, that's at least $400 million in ford's pocket. That's a pretty good chunk of change, especially considering the engineers for part of the product weren't receiving any sort of pay raise since it was a job done under the noses of Ford management.

The GT4 is nothing like what a GTE class mustang would have to be in order to compete

 

[5.0 435]

Ford's reason for building the GT is that a mustang chassis would cost billions of dollars to develop to be competitive at Le Mans and they would get absolutely no return on it, as $500k mustangs probably wouldn't sell very well in the public market. Therefore, they developed a clean slate chassis that they could make a production version of to make back some of their money. with around 1000 GTs slated to be made at AT LEAST $400k each, that's at least $400 million in ford's pocket. That's a pretty good chunk of change, especially considering the engineers for part of the product weren't receiving any sort of pay raise since it was a job done under the noses of Ford management.

The GT4 is nothing like what a GTE class mustang would have to be in order to compete

The corvette does it in the IMSA GTLM series and enters the Le Mans.

 

[Twin Turbo]

Mustang was going to be the car for Le Mans......but Project Silver was cancelled.......

http://www.carbuzz.com/news/2017/4/...ang-At-Le-Mans-Instead-Of-The-New-GT-7738617/

 

[NoVaGT]

Mustang was going to be the car for Le Mans......but Project Silver was cancelled.......

http://www.carbuzz.com/news/2017/4/...ang-At-Le-Mans-Instead-Of-The-New-GT-7738617/

That article reads that Silver was cancelled because Mustang was never even close to being the right car for Le Mans.

 

[2011mustang]

The corvette does it in the IMSA GTLM series and enters the Le Mans.

The GTLM series and Le Mans is the same class.

 

[BmacIL]

The corvette does it in the IMSA GTLM series and enters the Le Mans.

Corvette = Sports car
Mustang = Sports coupe/Pony car

Nothing they could do within rules with the Mustang platform would allow them to be competitive in GTE Pro with Corvette, Ferrari, Porsche. The goal was to win that class, which they did.

 

[v8hgt]

The vette is smaller , lighter with infinity better aero from its low engine. The mustang (fun though it is) is not a potential race car. Forget 24 hrs at Le Mans unless you want to be laughted at.
In some ways I think cancelling the S650 could be a good thing. Ford need to focus on fewer models and improve the diabolically poor quality exhibited in some of their model line up. The focus and Mondeo really show the mustang up badly. Not having owned an American car before I’m not sure if they are all this badly assembled or if the
Mustang is just exceptionally bad. I had less rattles and more even panel gaps on my Spanish built 1982 ford escort. And the oil cooler and interior heat exchanger Lasted more than 100000 miles in that car. The same cannot be said of the S550.
Best to take a break from the mustang and let ford return it when they have figured out how to build them properly. It’s a sad state of affairs when even the French can produce better built cars.

 

[NoVaGT]

Ford need to focus on fewer models and improve the diabolically poor quality exhibited in some of their model line up. The focus and Mondeo really show the mustang up badly. Not having owned an American car before I’m not sure if they are all this badly assembled or if the
Mustang is just exceptionally bad. I had less rattles and more even panel gaps on my Spanish built 1982 ford escort. And the oil cooler and interior heat exchanger Lasted more than 100000 miles in that car. The same cannot be said of the S550.
Best to take a break from the mustang and let ford return it when they have figured out how to build them properly.

Mustangs have always had quality issues, it's just part of owning them.

Price, quality and content. Pick two of the three, because you can't have all three. With a Mustang, you get a great price with a lot of content. Quality, by default, has to suffer.

 

[v8hgt]

Mustangs have always had quality issues, it's just part of owning them.

Price, quality and content. Pick two of the three, because you can't have all three. With a Mustang, you get a great price with a lot of content. Quality, by default, has to suffer.

I accept and understand that but other ford products prove they can do it right if they want. If ford are serious about production for a world wide market at the prices they sell for in other markets then they need to up their game significantly! The S550 was a toe in the water, it can be forgiven for retaining its traditional mustang virtues of shite quality. But if the S650 is destined to succeed on a global stage with a new strategic ground up platform for the next 10 yrs it’s best they delay it and do a proper job.

 

[NoVaGT]

I accept and understand that but other ford products prove they can do it right if they want. If ford are serious about production for a world wide market at the prices they sell for in other markets then they need to up their game significantly! The S550 was a toe in the water, it can be forgiven for retaining its traditional mustang virtues of shite quality. But if the S650 is destined to succeed on a global stage with a new strategic ground up platform for the next 10 yrs it’s best they delay it and do a proper job.

Other Ford products are no better or worse quality-wise than the Mustang. I've owned the Fusion, I've owned the Focus, and had issues with both. They're Fords, they're best kept under warranty.

The Mustang is not "shite quality". They're actually pretty damned good, and the 2015-2017 are better than previous generations.

I'm don't know where your impressions are coming from, but I get the impression you don't like your Mustang.

 

[jake_zx2]

The corvette does it in the IMSA GTLM series and enters the Le Mans.

The vette is also in a whole different league than the mustang. A mustang on the current chassis would never be able to come near the corvette in terms of performance

The vette is smaller , lighter with infinity better aero from its low engine. The mustang (fun though it is) is not a potential race car. Forget 24 hrs at Le Mans unless you want to be laughted at.
In some ways I think cancelling the S650 could be a good thing.

I feel like a completely redesigned platform MAYBE could have been competitive at Le Mans, which could have been a job for S650 since they would actually be able to sell them in large volumes. Aston Martin is able to compete, and the general design of that car (front engine, RWD, 2 door 4 seat grand tourer) and are usually somewhat close to the Vettes. But that would require a HUGE overhaul on the mustang platform

 

[TomcatDriver]

You won't get $400K for a Ford without limited production.

Hopefully what they learn on the GT will filter down to other models in the future.

I don't know what the margin is on the GT. You can plot a curve to maximize profit based on demand curve and margin. You can treat a limited production unit like this as a monopoly product. Since there is significant ADM going on, I assume Ford has plenty of margin to increase production without reducing price, or reducing price some while increasing volume to make more profit. Of course the kicker is that you never "really" know your demand curve. For example, just to make the math easy, let's assume the GT costs Ford $200K, and 100 million non-recurring engineering/manufacturing cost. So if they sell them for $400K they make 200K per car. If they make 1000@400K they make 200,000,000 profit - 100,000,000 non-recurring. If they make 3000 but drop the price to 300K, then they make 300,000,000 profit - 100,000,000 non recurring, or an increase of 100,000,000. But if they end up dropping the price to $250K to sell 3000 then it's only 150,000,000 - 100M non recurring.

I'm sure Ford had rooms full of MBAs doing this all day.

 

[EJS2016]

As mentioned in the 25DEC17 issue of Automotive News, Jim Hackett will be a speaker at the 42nd Annual Automotive News World Congress January 16-17, 2018 in Detroit.

I quote:
“Hear from the visionary leader at the helm of Ford”

Perhaps Mr Hackett will reveal and discuss his plans/goals and “vision” for the Mustang...

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