Oil consumption

[OnlyNonScout]

S650 performance GT in for 3rd oil change at 8811k miles. Engine was 1.5 qts low. Transmission, 10 speed auto, also shudders during normal driving. Anybody have any predictions? Ford wats me to leave it with them for at least a week.

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[JAM486HP]

Ford gave me the same BS, a week just to check the trans fluid level and run diagnostics, no thanks.

A10 shudder 4th to 5th gear is known and normal, I have it. Also the adaptive learning tables could be acting up. I cleared mine in FORScan and it helped smooth out shifts and no more hunting for gears.

Have you had the trans fluid levels checked? These have been known to be a little low and cause shifting issues.

 

[Skye]

A week would not be unusual. There are general purpose techs, which perform routine maintenance, and specialists, with advanced experience. It can take time to schedule someone. Further, if the root cause is not obvious, compression tests, bore scoping and opening cases with Ford can take time.

1.5 quarts / 1.4 litre.

2024 with 8k miles, 14k kms. So driven often.

I assume a stock drivetrain, but if you do have a Whipple, let us know.

No tells or signs? Leaks? Smells? Smoke exiting the exhaust?

Third oil change. Is this the first interval the engine lost oil? If it has lost oil before, has the amount being lost been increasing?

I can offer four scenarios:

1. Leak. The valve covers are plastic. They can occasionally be warped and not make a good seal. If they were torqued too tight, warpage can also occur. A fastener or two loosening, a leak. This has happened, on both the Gen3 and Gen4 engines. With a leak, I'd think it'd be witnessed on the ground or in the air. Something might not have been fastened well during the previous oil change, either the filter or the drain plug. Physical road damage from striking something. So the tech noticed the low oil. In any of the item 1 scenarios, they should have also pointed out the obvious. But sometimes, they don't. Or, maybe it's not an external leak.

2. At the start of production, the S650 was stopped for QC issues. Nothing specific was mentioned by Ford or reporters, other than something related to valves, the valve train, the top end of the engine. Since, there have been one, maybe two threads here of failed valve stem seals. The seals were replaced under warranty. With the stem seals, it should be seen from the exhaust.

3. If the car is tracked or beaten often it will consume some oil. But you'd have to be on it pretty consistently to be down 1.5 quarts.

4. Worst case, something internal has failed. I put more confidence in the first three scenarios before item 4. Tests for compression or visual scoping with a camera could confirm. PCV valves can stick, allowing oil to be drawn into the engine; but this happens most often in engines much older.

As to the transmission, the fluid is the first thing that should be checked. It's a PITA, especially on a hot car. Low fluid is somewhat common. The systems settle after being filled at the factory and need to be topped off.

@Ford Motor Company

Please let us know what comes about.

 

[Ryunker]

S650 performance GT in for 3rd oil change at 8811k miles. Engine was 1.5 qts low. Transmission, 10 speed auto, also shudders during normal driving. Anybody have any predictions? Ford wats me to leave it with them for at least a week.

Not normal oil consumption, have done three oil changes and similar miles. No measurable oil use or noise.

 

[Alan Applegate]

I wonder about some service departments! I have had instances where the oil level was at the bottom of the stick after an oil change. Surely engines don't leak/use that much driving home 2 miles! In otherwise words, they didn't check the level on final inspection! Sure makes you wonder what the hell else they missed!

One more thing. There is a reason (if you could call it that) why there is no dip stick on a 10R80. They use special transmission fluid, and even topping off with the wrong type of AT fluid, will run the transmission. Supposedly, there is a low fluid sensor?

 

[Skye]

To the question about the amount of oil being filled, does the service ticket specify? Or just, "Oil change."

The Gen3 and Gen4 V8 engines have required 10 quarts for several years.

 

[snakeyes]

Sounds like a

 

[roket]

IIRC, Ford considers 1 quarts burned ever 3000 miles acceptable, unless its a high performance engine, then its 1 quart over 500 miles

 

[Skye]

On Oil Consumption, from the Owners Manual.

Page 299

Note: The oil consumption of new engines
reaches its normal level after approximately
3,000 mi (5,000 km).

Page 434

High performance vehicles can be driven
in such a way that may lead to higher oil
consumption (this includes extended time
at high engine speeds, high loads, engine
braking, hard cornering maneuvers, and
track use). Under these conditions, oil
consumption of approximately 1 quart per
500 miles (1 liter per 800 km) is possible.
As a result, the engine oil level needs to be
checked at every refueling and adjusted to
maintain proper level to avoid engine
damage.

As to the amount of loss expected when driving for general purposes, there are no manual notes on that. Simply, keep it between the dots. But yes, confirm with the Service Advisor what they consider "normal" and reply back here.

Ford can perform an oil consumption test, where the amount of loss is monitored, when attempting to confirm the rate of loss.

 

[OnlyNonScout]

I bought the car with 5,000 miles and it had 1 oil change. Never had the motor over 4k rpm.

 

[POHLHAMMER]

Never had the motor over 4k rpm.

What ? Now I question everything.

My guess , it was never full to begin with. Who measured the drained oil ? Easily within the margin of error between never re-checking oil level after starting engine , and overfilling a jug when using it for waste oil...

 

[Skye]

Never had the motor over 4k rpm.

Can you give some insight as to how you are driving the car? Are you taking short trips often, lugging the engine, and generally putting around? If you are, that can explain at least some of the oil consumption.

The Coyote, any modern ICE, needs to fully warm up. If not, condensation, nitrogen oxide and sulphur oxide accumulate, creating acids. Further, cold, brief drives bring an increase in fuel wash, further weakening the engine oil. Engine oils have additives to help with this, but only so much. Also, cold drives, the engine is "looser", allowing for more oil to pass the rings and exit the car.

These engines appreciate being laid into. Not bouncing off the rev limiter all the time, but good loads (once warmed up), accelerating and decelerating. The Coyote doesn't even wake up until past the 4K RPM mark.

That could be part of it. The previous tech not putting in enough oil might be the other part.

There could be a legitimate problem left from the previous owner. That has to be considered. While discussing with the dealer, ask them for an Oasis report and Service History, if you don't have those things already. Both can give you insight not only to maintenance, but any warranty work.

Whatever you've gotten now, it should help while having a discussion with the Service Advisor. The Service Tech can review all that while inspecting the car. Hopefully, it's something as simple.

Good Luck.

 

[Tyler Durden]

Ford gave me the same BS, a week just to check the trans fluid level and run diagnostics, no thanks.

A10 shudder 4th to 5th gear is known and normal, I have it. Also the adaptive learning tables could be acting up. I cleared mine in FORScan and it helped smooth out shifts and no more hunting for gears.

Have you had the trans fluid levels checked? These have been known to be a little low and cause shifting issues.

Mine hunts for gears too and its annoying. It sounds like its in manual mode and wont let go of the gear its in even though I am accelerating. I think it would be best to just not have an adaptive learning transmission?

But it seems from your post my solution would be to clear mine. But then I start thinking, how often will I need to clear it to have a normal transmission? I am just a bit frustrated. It happens randomly and people in the passenger always ask if I have it in manual mode when it happens.

 

[Eli GT]

S650 performance GT in for 3rd oil change at 8811k miles. Engine was 1.5 qts low. Transmission, 10 speed auto, also shudders during normal driving. Anybody have any predictions? Ford wats me to leave it with them for at least a week.

My '24 Mustang didn't use any oil, but my 2018 did between oil changes. It had the same 5.0 engine as the Mustang and it was a common problem for 2018-2020 F-150s with the 5.0 to use oil between oil changes. Lots of info online about that. My Ford dealer did a PCM update which is in a TSB on their computer. It lowers the pressure of the PCV system which was sucking too much oil through the engine. It should have been fixed in 2021 5.0 engines in the Mustang and F-150.

 

[Upacurb]

I had to double check if I signed onto the GT350 forums lol

My 5.0s from the past - burned oil
My GT350 - doesnt burn a drop of oil

Some Coyotes burn a little - lots of GT350s burn a little

If you go onto some of the other forums for other high performance cars- not rare to see high performance cars burning a little oil

The Coyote is much less "sensitive" compared to the VooDoo though....

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