My Adventures in Upgrading the Subwoofer and Center Speaker

[Starship Enterprise]

OK, this subject has been talked about ad nauseum. Do we need a new thread on it? Probably not. But if it helps someone upgrade the 2 speakers without having to look at 10 different threads, why not?

I put in the Pioneer 10” subwoofer. (Since replaced with the MUCH better matched Hifonics subwoofer...READ BELOW)
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07JVD1ZHV?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title&th=1

Red Wolf adapters (These made the new Pioneer sub a plug and play after stripping off the spade connectors. And if installing the Hifonics sub, a direct plug and play using the spade connections)
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B089Q9K9Z6?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title

The 4 bar grill
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01H9IL29S?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title&th=1

And replaced the center speaker with the Dayton Audio 3.5” speaker.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00Q3M9852?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title

EDIT 8/2026: After a year of use, I feel the Pioneer sub is way overpowered for the system. Only 100W allocated to the sub and the Pioneer is rated 1300W. I can barely hear it with no thump at all.

I replaced it with the Hifonics HFX10 which is much more sensitive than the Pioneer with a db sensitivity rating of 86 vs. the Pioneer which is rated at 74db and rated at a more matched 200W RMS with 400W peak. The difference is staggering! Do NOT get the Pioneer unless you upgraded the amp!
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0GW9RB9N8?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title

My REVIEW OF THE HIFONICS sub:

I installed the new sub today. Took 15 minutes. The sub has twin sets of 4 ohm spade connectors. It mounts using 8 screws vs. the 6 Pioneer screws. I just drilled 8 new holes in the box and found 2 more screws. Size-wise it's a perfect drop-in.

So I played SXM and music off my Samsung phone via bluetooth. The difference was staggering! Did it shake the windows? Hell no, but the sound was MUCH MUCH more pronounced than the Pioneer with MUCH more bass response.

Testing was also done with sound faded to 100% rear. Playing SXM, I could hear little digital artifacts, but not from bluetooth. But when sound was balanced to middle of the interior, it sounded FANTASTIC in all modes!!!

The difference was extremely noticeable and a MASSIVE IMPROVEMENT over the Pioneer. The B&O 12 speaker system just sounded louder, clearer, and sharper overall with MUCH more bass feel!

With the Hifonics sub at 200W RMS and 400W max, with 86 db. sensitivity, it is a MUCH better match to the stock stereo system vs. the Pioneer.

(FWIW, I also keep one rear seat folded down which lets MUCH more sub sound carry through to the front.)

I highly recommend this sub. Only $49 at Amazon. Others who got the DD sub probably got a big improvement I'm sure as it also has an 86 db sensitivity.

At this point I realized that with the stock amp, I would NOT recommend the Pioneer sub!

Pioneer 10” sub:
Drops right in as everybody said. I rotated it ever so slightly so I could drill new holes in the sub box to mount it. Drill extra small holes!!! The screws need to bite. Sounds better but not much boomier. What did happen is that it had better soundwaves which allowed all the other speakers to sound better. (I have the B&O 12 speaker system). I noticed significantly better sound out the side woofers! It just made the whole sound system sound better overall. This sub replaces the stock 4 ohm dual coil with the same specs. By using the stock holes on the Pioneer, I saved about an hour of drilling and bending the metal ring and was now able to put the Pioneer trim ring on. And you can’t really notice the Pioneer logo is slightly tilted.

I drilled 4 new holes and put the grill over.

Things I noticed while listening to different songs on XM Sirius:
- Folding down the back seat lets more sound up front.
- The Pioneer sub is clearer than OEM, but sound is very low with almost no thump or bass response. Can barely hear it.

Dayton Audio 3.5” Center Speaker.
I got this speaker because the OEM center speaker is 8 ohm, 12.5 watts. This speaker is also 8 ohm, which I believe won’t upset the sound balance.

Center grill pops right off. Just held on with 4 clips. Just pop off with trim removal tool. Remove the 2 screws, Unclip the connector, and snip the wires and solder them to the new speaker. If you look close + and - are marked on both speaker terminals.

Now here’s the hard part. The new speaker holes don’t come anywhere close to lining up with the two stock screw holes in the dash. There’s also no room to drill new holes as the windshield is just 2 inches above the opening. I thought about it a while and determined, if 3M tape can hold on my front splitter, louvers, rear spoiler, and side louvers, they can hold a little speaker on the dash.

So I peeled the foam tape off the new speaker, and double taped inside the little recessed sections underneath inside the metal ring recess, so the final ring of 3M tape has a flat surface to stick to. Then I trimmed the little plastic alignment tab off the center dash, and laid down a ring of 3M tape to the dash to receive the speaker. I connected the wire clip, dropped in the speaker and secured the edge of the ring with more thin strips of 3M tape. I determined it is NOT going anywhere! The speaker grill clipped on top of it…. no problem.

Testing the sound, I feel a decent improvement!

For now still going with Surround and having at least one back seat folded down to let more sound up front.

Hope this helped anyone considering replacing the sub and center speaker!

Pioneer sub with 4 bar grill.

CENTER SPEAKER
Mounting holes not even close!

New vs. old

Showing how the little strips of 3M tape fill the recesses in the speaker ring.

OEM clip soldered on to new speaker

Final ring of 3M tape around new speaker for mounting.

New speaker mounted with 3M tape. Don’t laugh…it worked! OK…lol.

Center Speaker Grill Clipped right back on. (Phew)

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[DarkkMatter]

Thx for the write up and pictures.
I might be replacing the stock 9 speaker system with just better quality speakers that I can simply replace. Definitely want to use stock amps so it makes it a bit hard to find 8-ohm and 4-ohm speakers that have a low rms rating as stock.

 

[Starship Enterprise]

If you just replace the sub and center speaker, You might just notice enough of a difference to make your ears happy. Start with those 2 and see how it sounds. At this point I am extremely happy with my sound system now!

 

[steveo1960]

OK, this subject has been talked about ad nauseum. Do we need a new thread on it? Probably not. But if it helps someone upgrade the 2 speakers without having to look at 10 different threads, why not?

I put in the Pioneer 10” subwoofer.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07JVD1ZHV?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title&th=1

Red Wolf adapters (These made the new Pioneer sub literally a plug and play!)
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B089Q9K9Z6?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title

The 4 bar grill
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01H9IL29S?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title&th=1

And replaced the center speaker with the Dayton Audio 3.5” speaker.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00Q3M9852?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title

Pioneer 10” sub:
Drops right in as everybody said. I rotated it ever so slightly so I could drill new holes in the sub box to mount it. Drill extra small holes!!! The screws need to bite. Sounds better but not much boomier. What did happen is that it had better soundwaves which allowed all the other speakers to sound better. (I have the B&O 12 speaker system). I noticed significantly better sound out the side woofers! It just made the whole sound system sound better overall. This sub replaces the stock 4 ohm dual coil with the same specs. By using the stock holes on the Pioneer, I saved about an hour of drilling and bending the metal ring and was now able to put the Pioneer trim ring on. And you can’t really notice the Pioneer logo is slightly tilted.

I drilled 4 new holes and put the grill over.

Things I noticed while listening to different songs on XM Sirius:
- Folding down the back seat lets more sound up front
- In Surround mode, the sound is fuller and more spatial, but if you isolate the sub with the fader, some songs struggle with the sub…you can hear a distinct squealing and unpleasant audio artifacts….but it depends on the song.
- In Stereo the sound is much stronger at the cost of being less spacial, but the sub is stronger and shows no bad sound artifacts.

Dayton Audio 3.5” Center Speaker.
I got this speaker because the OEM center speaker is 8 ohm, 12.5 watts. This speaker is also 8 ohm, which I believe won’t upset the sound balance.

Center grill pops right off. Just held on with 4 clips. Just pop off with trim removal tool. Remove the 2 screws, Unclip the connector, and snip the wires and solder them to the new speaker. If you look close + and - are marked on both speaker terminals.

Now here’s the hard part. The new speaker holes don’t come anywhere close to lining up with the two stock screw holes in the dash. There’s also no room to drill new holes as the windshield is just 2 inches above the opening. I thought about it a while and determined, if 3M tape can hold on my front splitter, louvers, rear spoiler, and side louvers, they can hold a little speaker on the dash.

So I peeled the foam tape off the new speaker, and double taped inside the little recessed sections underneath inside the metal ring recess, so the final ring of 3M tape has a flat surface to stick to. Then I trimmed the little plastic alignment tab off the center dash, and laid down a ring of 3M tape to the dash to receive the speaker. I connected the wire clip, dropped in the speaker and secured the edge of the ring with more thin strips of 3M tape. I determined it is NOT going anywhere! The speaker grill clipped on top of it…. no problem.

Testing the sound, I feel a massive improvement!

For now still going with Surround and having at least one back seat folded down to let more sound up front.

Hope this helped anyone considering replacing the sub and center speaker!

Pioneer sub with 4 bar grill.

CENTER SPEAKER
Mounting holes not even close!

New vs. old

Showing how the little strips of 3M tape fill the recesses in the speaker ring.

OEM clip soldered on to new speaker

Final ring of 3M tape around new speaker for mounting.

New speaker mounted with 3M tape. Don’t laugh…it worked! OK…lol.

Center Speaker Grill Clipped right back on. (Phew)

Thank you for the write up and excellent pics.. My Dayton arrived today and the Pioneer sub has been sitting in the box for a couple of months now so it's time to get this done. First thing I noticed with the Dayton was the weight of it. Very heavy considering the size.. Gonna tackle both later this week.

 

[Starship Enterprise]

Thanks!

Yeah the Dayton has a beefy magnet. Both speakers are worth the trouble of putting in, but really, once I resolved to just drill new holes in the sub box to match the Pioneer, and just 3M tape the Dayton center speaker, I literally saved hours of time.

Be sure to get those adapter cables for the Pioneer. They are also a huge time saver.

 

[steveo1960]

Thanks!

Yeah the Dayton has a beefy magnet. Both speakers are worth the trouble of putting in, but really, once I resolved to just drill new holes in the sub box to match the Pioneer, and just 3M tape the Dayton center speaker, I literally saved hours of time.

Be sure to get those adapter cables for the Pioneer. They are also a huge time saver.

Yea I have the adapter cables for the Pioneer.

Edit :::::
I'm thinking of sacrificing one of the low impedance Infinity tweeters I have and cutting off the mounting tabs and affixing them to the Dayton unit.
I dunno, I have some 3M tape around so that sounds easier.

Edit ::: Scratch that one.. PITA from the looks of it. Gonna go the 3M route.

I'm glad it all worked out for you and do appreciate your pics and comments!

 

[Starship Enterprise]

I think you’ll like the quality of the Dayton speaker as it is. It is a nice little speaker!

 

[Deleted member 63243]

I've wanted to replace the center speaker and have a trim removal tool kit, but none will fit the small crack to remove the grill. How about a mock up pic of the tool and where you used it on the grill please.

 

[Junkyard Dog]

Yes - if you would, please provide a better description of how you get into the center speaker and remove it. Thank you in advance.

 

[Junkyard Dog]

Thanks!

Yeah the Dayton has a beefy magnet. Both speakers are worth the trouble of putting in . . .

Surprising you get such good sound out of a speaker that costs less than 40 bucks . . .

 

[AZ_Ryan]

If you just replace the sub and center speaker, You might just notice enough of a difference to make your ears happy. Start with those 2 and see how it sounds. At this point I am extremely happy with my sound system now!

The 9 speaker system doesn't have a sub.

 

[Starship Enterprise]

Trim removal kit…Under $7 and you get every tool you’d ever want. This is what I bought and used.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07V22YC9J?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title&th=1

The dash itself is soft and pliable, so it’s really easy to wedge one of the tools under the grill, and it just pops right up. Just wedge one of your tools into the dash and press down…it WILL get under the speaker grill. There’s 4 clips total and they are just friction fit. Don’t be scared to pop the grill up…nothing will break. The clips WILL give before anything bad happens!

The OEM speaker itself is just 2 screws that require a socket head. And pinch the wire clip and it disconnects easy And pulls right out. Remember to set the dash wire clip into the side dash slot so it doesn’t fall down in the hole.

As far as sound improvement, yeah it’s “just” $40, but it’s only a 3.5” speaker. $40 is about the upper end of what I could find on a 3.5” 8 ohm speaker.

Is it life changing sound? Hell no! But for some reason, changing the sub and center speaker (the 2 easiest speakers to change) are just enough to elevate the quality of the sound system overall. Enough of a difference for me to go “Huh…that’s a decent improvement” and notice a nice improvement in upper and lower end.

AZ Ryan. 9 speakers in the convertible….OK…I guess the side woofers do the heavy lifting then.

 

[Fruitstang]

Definitely want to use stock amps so it makes it a bit hard to find 8-ohm and 4-ohm speakers that have a low rms rating as stock.

RMS rating of a speaker means how much power it can handle, so a higher rated speaker does no harm at all.

 

[Starship Enterprise]

My online research showed that if a speaker is disproportionately too high of a wattage capability compared to an amp with much lower output, the result is an underpowered speaker that doesn’t perform well and if the amp is turned up too much it results in clipping.

I have read that the sweet spot for a speaker’s RMS rating is between 75% and 150% of the amp’s output. I read that having a speaker rated slightly lower than the output results in a fuller sound without working the amp too hard. Of course, you can blow the speaker if turned up too much.

I think for me the sweet spot is a speaker rating that isn’t much higher than the amp’s output for that particular channel. But options like the subwoofer have showed me it’s hard to find anything lower than 400W RMS for a 10” sub, and I have yet to find what the B&O system’s amp puts out in the sub channel. So I put in the Pioneer like so many others did, and am happy with it overall.

Just driving today, I was listening to music off my phone/bluetooth and was really happy with the sound since I replaced the sub and center speaker.

For those who want their 12 speaker B&O system to sound better, and not have to do too much, just replacing those 2 speakers was good enough for me.

I have settled on Surround mode, and have even had to turn the bass down because it was so strong, but not from the sub, the door woofers really came alive since upgrading the sub. I asked some sound guys, and they said a cheap or improperly tuned speaker can emit a bad resonance that suffocates the other speakers.

I swear, after replacing the sub, it’s like all the other speakers can breathe.

 

[WhooptieDo]

I have read that the sweet spot for a speaker’s RMS rating is between 75% and 150% of the amp’s output. I read that having a speaker rated slightly lower than the output results in a fuller sound without working the amp too hard. Of course, you can blow the speaker if turned up too much.

I think for me the sweet spot is a speaker rating that isn’t much higher than the amp’s output for that particular channel. But options like the subwoofer have showed me it’s hard to find anything lower than 400W RMS for a 10” sub, and I have yet to find what the B&O system’s amp puts out in the sub channel. So I put in the Pioneer like so many others did, and am happy with it overall.

Generally speaking, you can consider RMS more of a suggestion in car audio. Reputable brands highly underrate their gear. Particularly brands like JL and Rockford. The amplifier is the key to everything, honestly. I've always held onto my old JL Slash series amps. The 500/1 benches at over 700 watts RMS when you crank it up. Yet I put it all into a single Rockford Punch 10" that was only rated for 250 watts. The speaker absolutely loved it, ran it that way for 4 years until the surrounds started deteroriating. Still have the speakers, just need fresh surrounds. Similar stories for my Hertz components.

Where people go wrong is not setting their gains properly, thinking that turning that knob up increases volume somehow. It's a recipe for disaster. A 500 watt speaker can just as easily be blown on a 250 watt amp as it can one substantially bigger. When it comes to subwoofers, another component that cannot be overlooked is box design. Smaller boxes can handle alot more power. Larger boxes can resonate more sound, but the chassis of the speaker can slam alot easier. The point is listen for distortion, that's the killer.

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