Mustang Hybrid (S650) Announced, Debuts in 2020

[Bullitt]

What... at the beginning you state their is a very vocal and real demand, which btw I don't know how you are even measuring that, and then at the end you stated that demand has become less and less.

All in all, there is one thing that's constant in this world and that's change.
People want better this and that but yet don't want change. I don't understand. I would imagine the NA V8 will live for some time and in the course of time die like everything else on earth but there's nothing wrong with that. In my opinion, the mustang is no longer a "muscle car" it's more of, depending on how spec'd, an entry-level sports car. Technology is an amazing thing let's embrace it, give constructive criticism and keep moving forward.

Read it again. I said it will "eventually become less and less".

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[BluByeU]

Cant stop progress. Look what it did for Ferrari, McLaren, Porsche and Mercedes-Benz.

I looooove my s550 but very much looking forward to what the s650 has in store for us.

x2...cannot stop progress though not a fan of a hybrid Stang. Kudos to Ford for doing this, but personally I'm looking for a 5.8, 5.4, 5.2 or God forbid a 7 Liter S650 Mustang.

 

[2morrow]

x2...cannot stop progress though not a fan of a hybrid Stang. Kudos to Ford for doing this, but personally I'm looking for a 5.8, 5.4, 5.2 or God forbid a 7 Liter S650 Mustang.

They'll definitely keep the V8 stang for a generation or 2. I can also see future models having serious weight reduction with the implementation of more advanced composites.

 

[mjhousto]

Yeah...problem is the peak torque in the Mustang coyote is MORE than the peak torque in the Truck. I can see a reduced peak HP so you get more torque. AOL keyword is MORE. I should see MORE torque in the F150 not less.

• Mustang: 400 lb.-ft. @ 4250
• F150:: 387 @ 3850

So I lost 13 lb-ft but I gain a measly 400 rpm in the curve? and what did that cost me? I gave up and additional 50 hp, loss 13 torque but moved the curve 400 rpm. Meanwhile...the Ecoboost in the 2017 truck dumps a stupid 510hp @ 3500. I mean...who WOULDN'T buy it?!? 385/510...with an even lower peak. Yeah...you sure I'm 'WRONG'? :frusty:

The F150 makes larger torque at lower RPM for hauling purposes. The engine is tuned specifically for the vehicle. F150 makes power for hauling and towing purposes while Mustang makes power for speed.

 

[Czs550]

Introducing the hybrid is basiclly killing the v8. Probally will happen by 2022 and thats sad, idc if a hyrid automatic is faster than a stick v8. You cant beat the sound of the v8. Im just gunna go back in time, i will never get a hybrid mustang. 1969 mach 1 428 cobra jet sounds good to me. Hybrid might be quicker, but nothing beats cammin' at a red light with your arm out the window on a hot summer day. Hybrid cant give you that feeling inside, sorry.

 

[dron_jones]

Exactly. And eventually the demand for V8s will also be 5% once the Hybrids are introduced as being faster and still affordable. That's when the V8 will stop making business sense and go away.

If the demand for the V8's go away its because people no longer want them. This is how a supply and demand model works. I'm not sure what point you are making? Barring any government imposed regulations v8's will continue to exist so long as the consumers keep buying them.

 

[1320']

If the demand for the V8's go away its because people no longer want them. This is how a supply and demand model works. I'm not sure what point you are making? Barring any government imposed regulations v8's will continue to exist so long as the consumers keep buying them.

It almost sounds like people don't want progress, innovation and new things because it means the V8 might die away.

If that's the case, then I say let it happen. If the V8 can stay competitive, cool! But if a TTV6 can do it all better and cheaper, with more power and better fuel economy all the while being cleaner?..then that means it's now the superior engine.

A person can go on about non-quantifiable metrics like "feeling" and "soul" and talking about the sound..sure, that's cool..go find yourself a nice classic Mustang, or a Foxbody, or a SN95 and work on that..don't expect new car progress to stop just to save the V8.

 

[CommyO]

Topnotch said 3.5TT Hybrid. Sounds like that's it for the v8. Coyote was a great motor. RIP

Let's see a 500hp+ mustang in 2020. MY2018 may be the 460hp-ish transition

 

[Bullitt]

If the demand for the V8's go away its because people no longer want them. This is how a supply and demand model works. I'm not sure what point you are making? Barring any government imposed regulations v8's will continue to exist so long as the consumers keep buying them.

I guess the point I'm making is right now there are two types of V8 buyers. Those that buy it just because it's currently the fastest Mustang and those who buy it because they also love the sound and feel of the V8 better. Once the first group ditches the V8 for the newest, fastest hybrid whatever, the only V8 buyers that will be left will be those that want a V8 regardless of whether it's the best performing. That group I fear is much smaller so there won't be large enough demand, eventually leading to the V8's demise and those clinging to "obsolete" V8s relegated to the used car market.

 

[morgande]

The F150 makes larger torque at lower RPM for hauling purposes. The engine is tuned specifically for the vehicle. F150 makes power for hauling and towing purposes while Mustang makes power for speed.

If by larger you mean +13 lb-ft @ 400 RPM less that I GUESS you're right. However...the Ecoboost offers a SIGNIFICANT AND SUBSTANTIAL boost in torque over the V8 at an even lower peak RPM. Combine this with the fact that the 6.2L was quiety removed from the lineup, and its easy to see why the take rate is so high for the ecoboost. As a '13 Supercrew Ecoboost owner well tell you...the TTV6 is the better mill. Sounds like crap, goes like snot.

My point is and continues to be the coyote was left with performance on the table in order to market the TTV6. Every truck owner will tell you that. Its not up for debate, and the numbers back up the claim.

 

[dron_jones]

I guess the point I'm making is right now there are two types of V8 buyers. Those that buy it just because it's currently the fastest Mustang and those who buy it because they also love the sound and feel of the V8 better. Once the first group ditches the V8 for the newest, fastest hybrid whatever, the only V8 buyers that will be left will be those that want a V8 regardless of whether it's the best performing. That group I fear is much smaller so there won't be large enough demand, eventually leading to the V8's demise and those clinging to "obsolete" V8s relegated to the used car market.

You are correct about that, and i too fall into someone that loves a NA manual v8 (two of my three cars fall into this category and the third is a manual I6) but unfortunately this is the way that capitalism and democracy work. But on the bright side with these changes will also come new innovation that will improve our lives as well. As much as i love driving my 68 fastback, i have never once got in the car and wished that it was my DD. Not interested in giving up Nav, backup camera, heated seats and auto temp controls!

 

[CommyO]

I guess the point I'm making is right now there are two types of V8 buyers. Those that buy it just because it's currently the fastest Mustang and those who buy it because they also love the sound and feel of the V8 better. Once the first group ditches the V8 for the newest, fastest hybrid whatever, the only V8 buyers that will be left will be those that want a V8 regardless of whether it's the best performing. That group I fear is much smaller so there won't be large enough demand, eventually leading to the V8's demise and those clinging to "obsolete" V8s relegated to the used car market.

The reason there are v8 enthusiasts is because they've grown with it or been exposed on way or another. The same will happen to the hybrid mustang when it goes full electric in about a decade or two.

 

[morgande]

There is/are more signs that Ford is phasing out the V8 than keeping it. The Ford GT has a V6. Ford has made the TTV6 the premium engine in just about every vehicle in its lineup sans the Mustang and the Superduty. You can't even get a V8 in the Expy anymore.

Some people might want to argue it for the sake of arguing, but they have been telegraphing this punch for a while now.

 

[Czs550]

It almost sounds like people don't want progress, innovation and new things because it means the V8 might die away.

If that's the case, then I say let it happen. If the V8 can stay competitive, cool! But if a TTV6 can do it all better and cheaper, with more power and better fuel economy all the while being cleaner?..then that means it's now the superior engine.

A person can go on about non-quantifiable metrics like "feeling" and "soul" and talking about the sound..sure, that's cool..go find yourself a nice classic Mustang, or a Foxbody, or a SN95 and work on that..don't expect new car progress to stop just to save the V8.

Im all for new car progress and if the v6 tt hybrid is a better overall engine than the v8 so be it, but the day ford stops producing the v8 for the mustang should be the day thats its not called a mustang anymore.

 

[BmacIL]

I don't know if Ford handicapped the 5.0 but they did handicap the 3.7L V6. Make the trim and options as restrictive as possible, one small option package, base interior the only choice, etc. If there was a V6 Premium for 2015+ I don't think the EcoBoost would have sold nearly as well as it has. Hopefully the V8 doesn't suffer the same slow death through options limiting from 2021-2023 like the V6 did from 2015-2017.

This was done for CAFE reasons. I'm for most environmental regulations, but I hate CAFE, as it's supply-side, not demand side. Give customers a reason to want more efficient vehicles, don't push more efficient and expensive ones on them because it's mandated.

The engine itself wasn't really handicapped, but the trim was, for all the options you mention (no premium, no performance pack). The V6 with premium & PP options would sell better than the EB for a few reasons 1) an NA V6 is cheaper than a turbo I4, 2) the NA feel is what more buyers prefer, and 3) the V6 sound is quite substantially better than the EB, even if it still doesn't quite measure up to the V8 in this category.

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