Gen 4 coyote odd things to note

[Gogoggansgo]

I wanted to have an open discussion over all the reviews and what new info has come across between the mustang gt & dark horse gen 4 coyotes.
1) redline on the dark horse with the tremec is 7250rpm, this is really really odd because peak power is 7250. I’m really curious as to why this was done, we will find out when the tuners get ahold of them. This was actually confirm my car driver. There was a soft limiter at 7250 fuel cut is 7500, the automatic is 7500 for both
2) most of the reviews haven’t really gone wow the dark horse is significantly faster than the GT. Sounds like the added weight and the fact that the dark horse might have a much peaker power curve could be the issue
3) i can’t wait for Dyno data
4) dark horse requires premium fuel GT recommends it as it has done since 2011 but it’ll run on regular. This has not been officially confirmed. Other than a few were viewers saying engineers told them this in passing.
5) it sounds like most of the added hp with the dark horse come straight from added timing and spake advance, not so much the cams. Sounds like we could potentially get the focus rs camshaft debate that the 2.3 owners went through. Where the RS cams where sold off as performance upgrade cams and guys literally gained 5-10hp if that and it made alot of the aftermarket very mad. Hopefully that’s not the case with the dark horse, we need dyno data

Any other odd ball thoughts

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[LETHAL]

I wanted to have an open discussion over all the reviews and what new info has come across between the mustang gt & dark horse gen 4 coyotes.
1) redline on the dark horse with the tremec is 7250rpm, this is really really odd because peak power is 7250. I’m really curious as to why this was done, we will find out when the tuners get ahold of them
2) most of the reviews haven’t really gone wow the dark horse is significantly faster than the GT. Sounds like the added weight and the fact that the dark horse might have a much peaker power curve could be the issue
3) i can’t wait for Dyno data
4) dark horse requires premium fuel GT recommends it as it has done since 2011 but it’ll run on regular
5) it sounds like most of the added hp with the dark horse come straight from added timing and spake advance, not so much the cams. Sounds like we could potentially get the focus rs camshaft debate that the 2.3 owners went through. Where the RS cams where sold off as performance upgrade cams and guys literally gained 5-10hp if that and it made alot of the aftermarket very mad. Hopefully that’s not the case with the dark horse, we need dyno data

Any other odd ball thoughts

I will just touch on a few of your points.

* Premium fuel
Any vehicle with a 12:1 CR should run premium. Just for power's sake if nothing else.

* Cams
Cam upgrades on the Coyote platform really not needed. Cost vs. gains are not proportionate. MAX effort NA builds are not cost effective vs. Forced induction anyways.

 

[Gogoggansgo]

I will just touch on a few of your points.

* Premium fuel
Any vehicle with a 12:1 CR should run premium. Just for power's sake if nothing else.

* Cams
Cam upgrades on the Coyote platform really not needed. Cost vs. gains are not proportionate. MAX effort NA builds are not cost effective vs. Forced induction anyways.

1) anyone who runs regular shouldn’t of gotten a mustang lol just my opinion don’t be cheap
2) yes and no, they work great if you’re doing an all out N/A build but it’s a lot of money for 25-40whp depending on the cams


Also i want to note that running regular will make the car very sluggish because of the significantly less timing and spark advance aka it’ll feel slow. No thanks

 

[DevilDog]

I'm no expert, but I would think the GT and DH would be fairly evenly matched in a straight line. If you're getting the AVE on the GT, there's really only a 14 hp difference.

 

[Gogoggansgo]

I'm no expert, but I would think the GT and DH would be fairly evenly matched in a straight line. If you're getting the AVE on the GT, there's really only a 14 hp difference.

From a roll it’ll be maybe 1 car difference at the strip maybe 2/10s lol

 

[DevilDog]

From a roll it’ll be maybe 1 car difference at the strip maybe 2/10s lol

. . . and some of that will come down to the driver's and the auto or manual transmission.

 

[LETHAL]

. . . and some of that will come down to the driver's and the auto or manual transmission.

A10 GT will smoke a M6 DH.

The age old question.. visceral feel or go fast LOL

 

[Q6543]

I plan on drag racing my car. I ordered a 300A GT/10R80

I would guess.. the DH has 1* more spark in its WOT table… and the extra 14HP are not gonna overcome the 2-300lbs weight difference.

for me as someone who likes to race a 44K GT Left me with 10-11K for whipple/long tubes. All in 55K
Still cheaper than a base DH, and I’ll make closer to 900 on Sunoco 260GT pullied down.

I know people are saying don’t compare DH to GT350… but it’s gonna be the same all over again
GT350s are slower than dog ass on the streets unless it’s a 100K plus fathouse built car.

 

[LETHAL]

I plan on drag racing my car. I ordered a 300A GT/10R80

I would guess.. the DH has 1* more spark in its WOT table… and the extra 14HP are not gonna overcome the 2-300lbs weight difference.

for me as someone who likes to race a 44K GT Left me with 10-11K for whipple/long tubes. All in 55K
Still cheaper than a base DH, and I’ll make closer to 900 on Sunoco 260GT pullied down.

I know people are saying don’t compare DH to GT350… but it’s gonna be the same all over again
GT350s are slower than dog ass on the streets unless it’s a 100K plus fathouse built car.

Or Whipple'd .. but I can talk from experience. a 900hp GT350 M6 is a handful on the street and track. Likely not overly reliable over time either as far as drivetrain.

 

[Gogoggansgo]

The 10r80s we will be per usual significantly faster because of gearing all those gears so short and close together mean you would have to use no lift shift and potentially have 4.09 gears and still I’d bet on the 10r80 being faster. It’s not really about shift times anymore because autos have always shifting faster it’s about gearing and tuning

 

[Gogoggansgo]

umm...

And what’s your point just because it can doesn’t mean you should this isn’t 1992 lol

 

[roket]

...
4) dark horse requires premium fuel GT recommends it as it has done since 2011 but it’ll run on regular
...

this is not true, there is nothing by Ford that states the DH requires premium. someone else claimed the same thing a few months ago and the only thing even close that i could find is that horsepower and torque ratings are measured using premium fuel due to the SAE standard

 

[Gogoggansgo]

this is not true, there is nothing by Ford that states the DH requires premium. someone else claimed the same thing a few months ago and the only thing even close that i could find is that horsepower and torque ratings are measured using premium fuel due to the SAE standard

Actually it is true but we don’t know what kinda protection ford built into the dark horse. On the Mustang gt it would just pull timing and de rate on the Gt350s, GT500s the car would basically go into a limp mode and would run like crap. For whatever reason Ford, doesn’t want to say required. Instead they kinda bounce around and say it’s recommended and you only get maximum horsepower on premium. Most people will run it anyway so it’s a moot point.

 

[OppoLock]

Confirmation on 7250rpm cutoff?

 

[roket]

Actually it is true but we don’t know what kinda protection ford built into the dark horse. On the Mustang gt it would just pull timing and de rate on the Gt350s, GT500s the car would basically go into a limp mode and would run like crap. For whatever reason Ford, doesn’t want to say required. Instead they kinda bounce around and say it’s recommended and you only get maximum horsepower on premium. Most people will run it anyway so it’s a moot point.

i can't find anything anywhere about premium being required
here's from eSourceBook, Ford's information system for dealers (V8 is both GT and DH)

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