All Season tires for a Dark Horse with Handling Package

[smurfslayer]

Patiently waiting for @robvas to point out the PS4S are not racing/track tires ….

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[The dark 1]

Yes, just barely, no tire poke

 

[Ken H.]

I have a 2025 dark horse with the Handling package. This puts a 305/30ZR/19 (F), and 315/30ZR/19(R) on the car, as it will be spending time in the Chicage are in the Novenber/December time period. I need to put all season tires on it, but I don't need dedicated winter tires on the car. I have just discovered that no tire manufacturer(that I, my local Ford service dept., or Discount tire) makes an all season radial in these sizes. When I bought the car I never considered, or even thought about an issue like this, or I don't think I would have gotten a DH with the handling package...yeah, I would have as this Vehicle is beautiful...Blue Ember Mica. I think, what I am in need of is suggestions on a solution..if thats possible. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

I know others in this forum will recognize that I’m being repetitive, BUT, it needs to be pointed out that it’s not just the #’s on the side of the tire that matters. You have to take into consideration the tire structure as well. The Pirelli Trofeo RS has a curved side wall that results in the section width being greater than the tread width. The Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 4’s that I bought for my 2024 DH with HP have a straighter side wall. This gives you an equal or larger tread width in a smaller # tire than the larger # Trofeo. My 285/35/20’s (front) & 305/35/20 (rears) have larger tread width (ie. traction patch) than the Trofeos. If you go with the same #’s for All Seasons, you may end up with tire sticking out past your fenders or impinging on your suspension parts, resulting in in a rub.
Go to tirerack.com & look up various tires. Go to specs. Check out the measurements - section width, tread width, diameter, revs per mile. This will help you compare & pick the right size for your needs.
I didn’t look closely at 19s since I was going to get new 20” wheels. I went with taller front & rear tires than stock & had 2 problems
1. Taller Front tires disabled my cruise control because it affected how the windshield camera sees the road & sends input to the computer. Switched back to stock wheels/tires & problem solved. Will probably go to 275/30/20 for the front to match stock diameter when cold weather gets here.
2. Tall rear tires threw speedometer off. It’s not linear. It’s exponential. Slow speed, off a little. Higher the speed, larger the difference. Had to be careful & do math in speed trap areas ANNOYING! I’m enjoying being back with the stock setup & an accurate speedometer. Will probably take the 285/35/20s from the front & put them on the rear when the 305/35/30s wear out. Then will go to 295s when they wear out (more tread width than 285 but similar diameter to stock).
in hindsight, I wish I had just stayed with stock 19s (wanted a true black wheel instead of dark tarnish) or had settled for smaller (narrower) 20 with stock diameter.
I spent 2 winters in Chicago driving a 1971 Corvette 454 with wide tires. Not fun. The recommendation to go with thinner tires for snow is good one.
Sorry for the long winded response. I just went through this process, spent hours studying the choices & still had problems. Wanted to share my frustrations.

 

[The dark 1]

Another thing to think about is rim width. I went with a 19x11 front and
19x11.5 rear. Recommend rim width for a 355mm tire is 12-13". Using a narrowed rim causes the tire to not spread out as much, keeping it from touching the suspension and not sticking out past the fenders.
Is it ideal, no. Do I like it, yes! As far as speedometer error,
It's very close.
30 is Acutely 29.7mph
60 is. 59.4mph
90 is. 89mph
So far that has not caused any problems.

 

[The dark 1]

I quoted the wrong chart, should read
30mph is actually 31
60mph is 62
90 mph is93

 

[Junkyard Dog]

Another thing to think about is rim width. I went with a 19x11 front and
19x11.5 rear. Recommend rim width for a 355mm tire is 12-13". Using a narrowed rim causes the tire to not spread out as much, keeping it from touching the suspension and not sticking out past the fenders.
Is it ideal, no. Do I like it, yes!

Just an FYI, if this matters to you. By using a wider tire on the same wheel, you are reducing your lateral grip. That tire would handle better on a wider wheel, and a narrower tire would handle better on the same wheel.

There are some Youtube videos floating around testing this very thing on a racetrack, and the design like you have, aimed at a wider wheel, loses significant time to a narrower tire on the same wheel and even a tire too narrow for the wheel.

The best times are of course the tire designed for a certain wheel width.

If you pay attention to the stock Trofeo RS, you will notice the narrower tread and the wheel being wider in comparison.

 

[Junkyard Dog]

The Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 4’s that I bought for my 2024 DH with HP have a straighter side wall. This gives you an equal or larger tread width in a smaller # tire than the larger # Trofeo. My 285/35/20’s (front) & 305/35/20 (rears) have larger tread width (ie. traction patch) than the Trofeos. If you go with the same #’s for All Seasons, you may end up with tire sticking out past your fenders or impinging on your suspension parts, resulting in in a rub.

Not the All Seasons, but a number of forum members here have installed the PS4S Michelins on the stock Dark Horse Handling Package wheels, using the same sizes (305 and 315 30/19)and there is no rubbing or impinging in spite of the wider tread as compared to the Pirelli Trofeo RS (probably similar to the All Seasons). I asked this specific question of at least two of them, who denied any such issues. I am just sharing that here in the interest of having more complete information for the next visitor to this thread.

 

[Sofa King]

Just an FYI, if this matters to you. By using a wider tire on the same wheel, you are reducing your lateral grip. That tire would handle better on a wider wheel, and a narrower tire would handle better on the same wheel.

There are some Youtube videos floating around testing this very thing on a racetrack, and the design like you have, aimed at a wider wheel, loses significant time to a narrower tire on the same wheel and even a tire too narrow for the wheel.

The best times are of course the tire designed for a certain wheel width.

If you pay attention to the stock Trofeo RS, you will notice the narrower tread and the wheel being wider in comparison.

Tirerack test

I picked tires that had tread narrower than the wheel. Not the widest possible setup, but it sure is crisp handling!

 

[Junkyard Dog]

Tirerack test

I picked tires that had tread narrower than the wheel. Not the widest possible setup, but it sure is crisp handling!

That was not the test I saw, but the results are very similar.

Out of curiosity, what is your wheel and tire setup?

 

[Sofa King]

That was not the test I saw, but the results are very similar.

Out of curiosity, what is your wheel and tire setup?

F - 20x9.5 265/35 20
R - 20x11 295/35 20
Mich PS AS4

 

[The dark 1]

@Junkyard Dog, watched a few videos of the different width tires on the same width rim. One good one was the mazda miata. The rear wheels I chose are only 1/2" narrower than recommend by the manufacturer. My opinion is the extra 3.2 inch extra width of tread more than offsets any loss of grip caused by the slightly narrowed rim. Yes the tires will roll slightly more but this is a street driven car as I have no track near me.

 

[Junkyard Dog]

This is the one I was thinking about:

 

[Ken H.]

F - 20x9.5 265/35 20
R - 20x11 295/35 20
Mich PS AS4

I’m thinking of going with 295/20’s for my rears. My 305/35/20’s affect my speedometer.
1 Is your speedometer affected?
2 How well do they fit inside the fenders - outside, even, inside?

 

[gtstang462002]

I’m thinking of going with 295/20’s for my rears. My 305/35/20’s affect my speedometer.
1 Is your speedometer affected?
2 How well do they fit inside the fenders - outside, even, inside?

Stock tires are 26.44" tall. Your current tires are 28.4" tall. The 295/20 that you are talking about going to is 24.65" tall. Going to affect your speedo in the opposite direction from where you currently are.

 

[robvas]

Stock tires are 26.44" tall. Your current tires are 28.4" tall. The 295/20 that you are talking about going to is 24.65" tall. Going to affect your speedo in the opposite direction from where you currently are.

Going to look ridiculous and have terrible straight line traction as well

Maybe he meant 295/30?

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