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7G S650 GT350 ?

Schwerin

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That's the point. The GT350 was way above the Mach 1, Bullitt or DH. Flatplane V8 with 5.2L is something special, Shelby name included. 5.0L with minor upgrades is not... The only thing special is the inflational price... GT350 for 65K is and was a steal. DH for 65K+ is not, nothing special about that car... Same engine, same interior...
"way above" in what way? If the GT350, Mach1, and DH cars are basically drivers races on track for the same price, then other than "a cool sound" and less reliability with higher repair costs?

I'm not gonna pay a markup for a car that "sounds cooler" when there is 0 tangible benefit. Also there wasn't really anything special about the GT350 interior. Some name plating? A shift knob? Its still a S550 interior.

The 5.2 was the only thing really special about GT350. Everything else about it is now part of Mach1 and DH and the 5.0 is now on par with the 5.2 It was cool in 2015 when it was introduced, now its just 7yr old tech with a cool sound. Meanwhile the 5.0 is now on its 2nd generation update since then.
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Schwerin

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If Ford just accidentally installed some Aluminator 52XS's into the next "named" car, I wouldn't complain..

Hell, I'd still like to see an all aluminum 7.3 stuffed into a Mustang, too.

Mentioning some of the classic NA masterpieces makes my heart hurt. Add the Audi 4.2 V8 to that list. The first time I experienced that was in an R8 (complete with the gated 6-speed). That drivetrain ruined me for a long time... The flywheel felt like it weighed less than air, lol.

Honda's K20 and F20 are a few others close to my heart, that are just...chef's kiss.

Could be the edibles...could be the fact it's late at night...but damn am I happy that we still have some high performance NA engines for sale. The writing is on the wall my friends!
I miss ripping around in high(for the time) RPM 4 bangers. Were they FAST? no but that wasn't the point you still got a great feeling from it. Its part of why BRZ and Miata are such great cars.
 

f00man

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I kinda doubt it. Ford introduced a brand new moniker with the Dark Horse (could have been a Boss 302), as to usher in the EV era for Mustangs. Plus, they are also introducing the Dark Horse S and R, which are supposed to be race-ready versions. I do see the S and R being the equivalent to what a Shelby GT350/GT500 would have been. I doubt it will be Coyote-based.
 

f00man

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That's the point. The GT350 was way above the Mach 1, Bullitt or DH. Flatplane V8 with 5.2L is something special, Shelby name included. 5.0L with minor upgrades is not... The only thing special is the inflational price... GT350 for 65K is and was a steal. DH for 65K+ is not, nothing special about that car... Same engine, same interior...
"Way above"? 😆🤣 The GT350 was beta testing by Ford to develop the Mach 1 HP and GT500.
 

Q6543

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The recaros in the 350 and R are the best looking seats ford has ever made
 


OppoLock

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"way above" in what way? If the GT350, Mach1, and DH cars are basically drivers races on track for the same price, then other than "a cool sound" and less reliability with higher repair costs?

I'm not gonna pay a markup for a car that "sounds cooler" when there is 0 tangible benefit. Also there wasn't really anything special about the GT350 interior. Some name plating? A shift knob? Its still a S550 interior.

The 5.2 was the only thing really special about GT350. Everything else about it is now part of Mach1 and DH and the 5.0 is now on par with the 5.2 It was cool in 2015 when it was introduced, now its just 7yr old tech with a cool sound. Meanwhile the 5.0 is now on its 2nd generation update since then.
Unique exterior: fenders, front bumper, exclusively designed rear bumper not shared with any other model, unique hood, and a spoiler that was unique until it got reused on the GT500 and Mach 1

Interior gets unique seats, different shifter, unique steering wheel with baing too, shift lights

Engine gets 10% more redline to play with, sound is actually something I would expect every car enthusiast to value (lol tf is it not a big deal to hear a Dyson turbo’d car or a silent EV), a carbon composite subframe (which is why it and the GT500 retain the MY15 front end) and tangibly more peak power, bigger brakes with aluminum vented hats front AND rear, as well as bespoke CUP 2 compounds that differ from the PP2 and GT350R
"Way above"? 😆🤣 The GT350 was beta testing by Ford to develop the Mach 1 HP and GT500.
Other way around

The Mach 1 was the parts bin special

Only things unique was that front bumper and some stickers lmao

The Mach 1 benefits from a digital tach, reliability, rev matching, and bigger tires
 

OppoLock

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Imagine a flat plane 5.4 making over 600 hp with reliability on par with the coyote 🤯.
I would be all for that shit

As long as they let the fun run up to 8000rpm plus so we can play pedal songs I’m fully in
 

OppoLock

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Werent voodoos blowing up left and right? Maybe they improved them as time went on.
Not mine

had a final run 2020 that rattled everything but the engine apart 😂
 

OppoLock

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The coyote is not boring. It may look boring compared to the voodoo, but it is not boring
Yeah definitely not boring, can’t diss on the Coyote to prop up the Voodoo

But having owned both there’s a massive difference in how much character the Vodoo delivers, 4000+ rpm it’s like you’ve got a caged Chewbacca screaming to get out
 
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Rocketman

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Not mine

had a final run 2020 that rattled everything but the engine apart 😂
What issues have you been having? I thought the 2019 and 2020's had some significant quality of life changes that the previous years lacked.
 

Hack

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Werent voodoos blowing up left and right? Maybe they improved them as time went on.
I've never heard of a single Voodoo blowing up. I put 33,000 trouble free miles on mine.

I have heard of 2019s with bad valves. And I believe that the piston rings and piston skirts are somewhat fragile. Especially the rings in the first few years of production. Possibly some rings may have been damaged during assembly, causing early oil consumption. Or there may have been flaws in the PTWA cylinder bores. Or the oil consumption in some cases might be due to excessive idling/not driving the car hard.

I knew a local guy that had two engine replacements on two different GT350s due to the cars using excessive oil. Not sure why that happened. Was it related to how he drove the car? Did he get really unlucky somehow? I wouldn't be surprised if there are a significant number of Voodoo oil consumption cases caused by how the owner drove the car.

Let’s start this from the top ford had alot of issues in development of the gt350, i was a regular on Svt performance And we heard all the horror stories which ended up being true. Ford wanted to lower the hood line by 40mms which resulted in them being unable to use a traditional twin throttle body setup. So they had to change the firing order which also meant they had to add more weight to the crankshaft which resulted in a pathetic 5 pound weight reduction. Which really isn’t that impressive when a 458s crankshaft is 38 pounds vs 50 for the gt350.
But what really kills these engines long term is the NVH issues and that’s because with this new firing order, it has terrible primary and secondary balances. Which means it’s a rocking couple, the engine basically wants to rotate on itself. This is something you really can’t just engineer out, which is why they have such an odd reliability reputation. I also feel like having them hand built probably didn’t help because it was a wild swing between them when it came to build quality. I know this because 3 of the early 2016 cars my buddies bought all had to have new engines with one getting bought back. It was a wild time to be on the forums let me tell ya

so for this generation i would be very surprised if FORD doesn’t do a next gen flat crank V8 because they fundamentally fixed the big problem with the GT350 which was the compromised firing order
I disagree with your NVH thing. I'm not sure I've heard of a single failure of a stock engine related to NVH. HoneyBadger's crank snout broke, but he had an aftermarket balancer on the car and the engine also had a bunch of mods. Plus that car was used really hard on track.

Are you trying to say that NVH caused oil consumption for some people? If so, can you please explain your theory on failure mode?

I'm not saying there were no failures or that the Voodoo is a perfect engine by any means. I just don't see how NVH could have caused any of the issues I've heard of.

To me the biggest flaw in the Voodoo was that Ford didn't sell enough GT350s.
 

codemanstang

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The Voodoo is plenty reliable. And as a plus it isn't nearly as boring as the Coyote.
Had a few friends with voodoo engines. Almost every one but one had a engine replaced at one point or another. There's a law suit over it as well. I guess reliable enough but being off the koolaid this is not normal or acceptable ever for a high performance car.
 
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Hack

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Had a few friends with voodoo engines. Almost every one but one had a engine replaced at one point or another. There's a law suit over it as well. I guess reliable enough but being off the koolaid this is not normal or acceptable ever for a high performance car.
Sorry to hear your friends had trouble. Do they still own the cars, or did they sell?
 

codemanstang

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Sorry to hear your friends had trouble. Do they still own the cars, or did they sell?
One still has his 2018. But it's more of a weekend car/ garage queen. I think he will keep that indefinitely it is a sweet machine. The others have moved on to other cars (Camaro SS 1le, zl1, M4 etc) their experiences is what kept me on the 5.0 and out of the voodoo were all pretty detailed on maintenance and upkeep.
 

Hack

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One still has his 2018. But it's more of a weekend car/ garage queen. I think he will keep that indefinitely it is a sweet machine. The others have moved on to other cars (Camaro SS 1le, zl1, M4 etc) their experiences is what kept me on the 5.0 and out of the voodoo were all pretty detailed on maintenance and upkeep.
Is he interested in selling? Just kidding. Anyway, I should say that I'm a hypocrite because I sold my GT350 out of reliability concerns and ended up with a regular GT. I really prefer the Voodoo over the Coyote, but I trust the Coyote to last (especially the pre-2018 version with the iron sleeve bores).

I do think the Voodoo reliability stuff is overblown, but if you keep any engine long enough and continue using it hard over time you will have to fix it. I decided I'd rather fix something cheaper.
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