7G S650 GT350 ?

[Katastrophe]

You make some valid points, but I'd argue when you're buying a sports car, the feelings it gives you surpass the actual performance numbers. In terms of performance numbers, it's not terribly surprising to see that the m1 is faster on many tracks. That's just engineers doing what engineers do, learning and improving on something already great to make it even better, at least in terms of objective metrics.

Perhaps I didn't clarify that in my post clearly, but yes...for me as well, it's the special sauce that makes all the difference.

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[Vyking]

As a Mach 1 owner, I will definitely be trading in for a 7th gen GT350 but only if Ford changes the firing order away from udud, increasing reliability while keeping it a fpc. I know personally of someone who had a GT350 with a blown motor, anyone who says it is overblown has their head in the sand. People who claim they've never had an issue make it apparent they don't daily drive their cars.

I don't think if they made it coyote/CPC based I would do a trade in. Just doesn't seem special enough to upgrade. Perhaps if they made it high revving/high output but not sure how.

Now would Ford be able to keep a similar exhaust note in a UDDU config just based on header design?

 

[FUN2RIDEFAST]

Unique exterior: fenders, front bumper, exclusively designed rear bumper not shared with any other model, unique hood, and a spoiler that was unique until it got reused on the GT500 and Mach 1

Interior gets unique seats, different shifter, unique steering wheel with baing too, shift lights

Engine gets 10% more redline to play with, sound is actually something I would expect every car enthusiast to value (lol tf is it not a big deal to hear a Dyson turbo’d car or a silent EV), a carbon composite subframe (which is why it and the GT500 retain the MY15 front end) and tangibly more peak power, bigger brakes with aluminum vented hats front AND rear, as well as bespoke CUP 2 compounds that differ from the PP2 and GT350R

Other way around

The Mach 1 was the parts bin special

Only things unique was that front bumper and some stickers lmao

The Mach 1 benefits from a digital tach, reliability, rev matching, and bigger tires

I personally think it's ugly. The badging is antiquated and the stripes unnecessary. Just my humble opinion.

 

[GT 500 760]

The recaros in the 350 and R are the best looking seats ford has ever made

Yes but you have to a really thin person to drive them longer then 20 minutes. imo they looked cheap . The Recaros in the 2020 GT500 are much better. Even the leather Recaros in the mach 1 are better fitting.

 

[OppoLock]

I personally think it's ugly. The badging is antiquated and the stripes unnecessary. Just my humble opinion.

You’re entitled to your opinion brotha whether or not I agree with you

Doesn’t change the facts about bespoke treatment though

 

[OppoLock]

Yes but you have to a really thin person to drive them longer then 20 minutes. imo they looked cheap . The Recaros in the 2020 GT500 are much better. Even the leather Recaros in the mach 1 are better fitting.

I think you just need to be sub-25% body fat tbh, aka not overweight

Definitely don’t look cheap in person! Alcantara and good cloth makeup

 

[BreadBurner]

As a Mach 1 owner, I will definitely be trading in for a 7th gen GT350 but only if Ford changes the firing order away from udud, increasing reliability while keeping it a fpc. I know personally of someone who had a GT350 with a blown motor, anyone who says it is overblown has their head in the sand. People who claim they've never had an issue make it apparent they don't daily drive their cars.

I don't think if they made it coyote/CPC based I would do a trade in. Just doesn't seem special enough to upgrade. Perhaps if they made it high revving/high output but not sure how.

Now would Ford be able to keep a similar exhaust note in a UDDU config just based on header design?

what is UDUD?

 

[Vyking]

what is UDUD?

Layout of the crank (Up Down Up Down)

 

[Hack]

In the case of the M1 vs GT350, objectively the M1 is the better buy. The car should be more reliable and the parts needed to keep it running over the years will be cheaper. On track it delivers the numbers and also provides a serious performance option for those who don't want to row their own gears...not to mention a higher level of creature comfort/luxury. However, it does miss out on the specialness that the GT350 exudes. Whether that matters, is all personal opinion.

It remains to be seen how well direct injected Ford Coyotes will hold up over time. Port injection is proven technology.

But definitely the Mach 1 brakes are cheaper to replace than those on the GT350.

 

[OppoLock]

It remains to be seen how well direct injected Ford Coyotes will hold up over time. Port injection is proven technology.

But definitely the Mach 1 brakes are cheaper to replace than those on the GT350.

Multi port pretty much eliminates the main issues that come with direct in that it mitigates carbon build up on the valves so I would assume the injection system wouldn’t be any more or less reliable than straight port practically speaking

 

[BreadBurner]

Layout of the crank (Up Down Up Down)

and what would the layout of the standard Coyote motor be like if you'd happen to know?

 

[Hack]

Multi port pretty much eliminates the main issues that come with direct in that it mitigates carbon build up on the valves so I would assume the injection system wouldn’t be any more or less reliable than straight port practically speaking

Anytime you add double the amount of parts you are going to reduce reliability. And I'm sure Ford tested the DI / PI systems, but they didn't test them for 10-20 years. That will be found out in the future. PI alone has been around for 30+ years and it's dead reliable. Adding all this extra gear makes the car less desirable for me.

 

[DeluxeStang]

Anytime you add double the amount of parts you are going to reduce reliability. And I'm sure Ford tested the DI / PI systems, but they didn't test them for 10-20 years. That will be found out in the future. PI alone has been around for 30+ years and it's dead reliable. Adding all this extra gear makes the car less desirable for me.

It depends on how the additional complexity is incorporated and executed. My grandfather was a propulsion engineer for some of the most complex vehicles ever designed. The original Boeing 737,747, 757, and 767. He could tell you, one of the things that makes planes so safe/reliable is their complexity. More specifically, there are fail-safes, and fail-safes for the fail-safes, and so on. It's basically the same thing for a lot of the modern tech in cars.

I'm not an engineering expert, but I'd imagine having multiple types of fuel injection is advantageous from a reliability standpoint. Port injection help to overcome some of the shortcomings of direct injection, as you and oppo were discussing. I believe it helps to prevent carbon buildup on the valves unless I'm mistaken. Port injection is great, but I've heard it's not as efficient as direct injection. Combining both helps to build up on the strength of each, while minimizing the downsides.

In essence, yes, cars are more complex now. But the various forms of tech are essentially backing each other up and keeping one another in check. Older cars were simple, but also had simple failure points as a result. When a car from the 70s had engine issues, those issues would escalate until you either fixed them, or the engine blew up. Modern cars when they run like crap will trigger CELs, put the car into limp home mode to minimize damage, etc. There are all these additional systems monitoring your car to ensure it's running well, and to take appropriate actions when it's not. That's complex, but it's improved longevity immensely.

 

[f00man]

Other way around

The Mach 1 was the parts bin special

Only things unique was that front bumper and some stickers lmao

The Mach 1 benefits from a digital tach, reliability, rev matching, and bigger tires

Wrong. The GT350 was beta testing by Ford. Everything learned from the GT350 was improved and applied to the GT500 and Mach 1 HP. This is why the GT500 doesn’t the have the reputation of being unreliable like the GT350.

Ford has stated many times that everything learned from 2015+ GT350 was applied to the Mach 1 HP. Just go look up the Jim Owens interviews, he states it over and over. The Mach 1 HP is a GT350/R with a 5.0 engine. I gladly sacrificed the FPC engine sound for the reliability of the Coyote. The Voodoo engine is a Russian roulette. And the sound of the Mach 1 is sooooo damn good.

 

[OppoLock]

Wrong. The GT350 was beta testing by Ford. Everything learned from the GT350 was improved and applied to the GT500 and Mach 1 HP. This is why the GT500 doesn’t the have the reputation of being unreliable like the GT350.

Ford has stated many times that everything learned from 2015+ GT350 was applied to the Mach 1 HP. Just go look up the Jim Owens interviews, he states it over and over. The Mach 1 HP is a GT350/R with a 5.0 engine. I gladly sacrificed the FPC engine sound for the reliability of the Coyote. The Voodoo engine is a Russian roulette. And the sound of the Mach 1 is sooooo damn good.

Parts bin special with tuning*

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