7G S650 GT350 ?

[Gogoggansgo]

I've never heard of a single Voodoo blowing up. I put 33,000 trouble free miles on mine.

I have heard of 2019s with bad valves. And I believe that the piston rings and piston skirts are somewhat fragile. Especially the rings in the first few years of production. Possibly some rings may have been damaged during assembly, causing early oil consumption. Or there may have been flaws in the PTWA cylinder bores. Or the oil consumption in some cases might be due to excessive idling/not driving the car hard.

I knew a local guy that had two engine replacements on two different GT350s due to the cars using excessive oil. Not sure why that happened. Was it related to how he drove the car? Did he get really unlucky somehow? I wouldn't be surprised if there are a significant number of Voodoo oil consumption cases caused by how the owner drove the car.



I disagree with your NVH thing. I'm not sure I've heard of a single failure of a stock engine related to NVH. HoneyBadger's crank snout broke, but he had an aftermarket balancer on the car and the engine also had a bunch of mods. Plus that car was used really hard on track.

Are you trying to say that NVH caused oil consumption for some people? If so, can you please explain your theory on failure mode?

I'm not saying there were no failures or that the Voodoo is a perfect engine by any means. I just don't see how NVH could have caused any of the issues I've heard of.

To me the biggest flaw in the Voodoo was that Ford didn't sell enough GT350s.

Oh you mean like how frpp had to replace exhaust manifolds because they kept cracking at the track attack and engines failing because of oil pressure issues left & right. Do ya wanna talk about how kooks had to add an exhaust dampener to the header so it wouldn’t rattle apart. Or how every single gt350 i drove had a Harmonic vibration at a different rpm. Ford did a good job with the restrictions they had but to act like these engines don’t have long term NVH due to it’s weird firing order is just ignorant

Right a rocking couple not causing NVH issues Lmfao

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[Gogoggansgo]

Is he interested in selling? Just kidding. Anyway, I should say that I'm a hypocrite because I sold my GT350 out of reliability concerns and ended up with a regular GT. I really prefer the Voodoo over the Coyote, but I trust the Coyote to last (especially the pre-2018 version with the iron sleeve bores).

I do think the Voodoo reliability stuff is overblown, but if you keep any engine long enough and continue using it hard over time you will have to fix it. I decided I'd rather fix something cheaper.

And you need to remember most of voodoo issues are going to come from NVH related failures like the oil filter spinning off cough cough. Or bad QC which resulted in a whole lot of early 2020 MY cars having engine failures. It was a good 1-3 a week for a good few months, all at 25k a pop. If ford does come out with a next gen VOODOO, it won’t have that crappy firing order

 

[Gogoggansgo]

The one area where i do agree was everyone for a long time saying the oil pump gears were exploding. This is one failure that i actually never saw any proof of actually happening on stock gt350s

 

[Hack]

Oh you mean like how frpp had to replace exhaust manifolds because they kept cracking at the track attack and engines failing because of oil pressure issues left & right. Do ya wanna talk about how kooks had to add an exhaust dampener to the header so it wouldn’t rattle apart. Or how every single gt350 i drove had a Harmonic vibration at a different rpm. Ford did a good job with the restrictions they had but to act like these engines don’t have long term NVH due to it’s weird firing order is just ignorant

Right a rocking couple not causing NVH issues Lmfao

You have to pull out cars that are used exclusively at the TRACK every single day to come up with your failures? Sorry, but that's nonsense. Yes, on track I understand more things can fail. Especially if you drive on track all the time. That's normal for any engine.

Yes I believe that aftermarket companies had to accommodate the Voodoo in different ways than other engines. Still has nothing to do with factory Voodoo engines failing from NVH or a problem with Ford's design of the engine.

So please give me something that really happened to some street driven stock Voodoos related to NVH if you are going to try to stick to a story of NVH causing warranty failures of the engine.

And you need to remember most of voodoo issues are going to come from NVH related failures like the oil filter spinning off cough cough. Or bad QC which resulted in a whole lot of early 2020 MY cars having engine failures. It was a good 1-3 a week for a good few months, all at 25k a pop. If ford does come out with a next gen VOODOO, it won’t have that crappy firing order

Yes, if the oil filter is not installed correctly, it will come off. Just like any engine. And yes, without any vibration it probably wouldn't come off. And yes, on most engines you don't have to torque the oil filter. So I will give you that. You came up with a potential source of engine problems from NVH. But I don't believe it happened when the filters were properly installed.

And we all know of another FPC example that had oil filters spin off. The new Z06 engine. And that engine has a different, more traditional FPC layout. So really, the filter thing might be considered a bit of a reach as well. Definitely not confined to Voodoo or the specific architecture of that engine.

 

[Schwerin]

Unique exterior: fenders, front bumper, exclusively designed rear bumper not shared with any other model, unique hood, and a spoiler that was unique until it got reused on the GT500 and Mach 1

Interior gets unique seats, different shifter, unique steering wheel with baing too, shift lights

Engine gets 10% more redline to play with, sound is actually something I would expect every car enthusiast to value (lol tf is it not a big deal to hear a Dyson turbo’d car or a silent EV), a carbon composite subframe (which is why it and the GT500 retain the MY15 front end) and tangibly more peak power, bigger brakes with aluminum vented hats front AND rear, as well as bespoke CUP 2 compounds that differ from the PP2 and GT350R

Other way around

The Mach 1 was the parts bin special

Only things unique was that front bumper and some stickers lmao

The Mach 1 benefits from a digital tach, reliability, rev matching, and bigger tires

A parts bin special that is on par with a "boutique car" where it counts. So... congrats? Your Unique car is now on par with a parts bin car...thats probably also more reliable.

What? If a DH beats you at the track you're gonna say "well ya know.. I got cool fenders....." LMFAO

Also, you cant "other way around" that comment. The GT350 came before the Mach1, so YES anything learned making and testing on it was then applied, updated, improved or adapted for the 18+ GT and Mach1. Its literally not physically possible for them to have designed the Mach1 then went back in time to use those changes on the GT350.

If you ONLY use "unique" as a way to qualify if a car is better than another or not then you're living in a very superficial world. I don't care how "unique" a 2013 Leguna Seca Boss is if a 2018 PPL2 is kicking its ass in daily drivability, reliability and around the track on weekends, the PPL2 is the better car. Is the BOSS still cool? Yeah, but its NOT the better car in any form.

Hell if all that matters is Cool Factor then I'd place a stock Integra Type R over a damn GT350 cuz they are rare as hell and I'd be MASSIVLEY more interested in it at a car show cuz I don't see 1-2 a week. Hell, I see less Mach1's than I do GT350's so... I guess that makes them more unique too.

 

[OppoLock]

A parts bin special that is on par with a "boutique car" where it counts. So... congrats? Your Unique car is now on par with a parts bin car...thats probably also more reliable.

What? If a DH beats you at the track you're gonna say "well ya know.. I got cool fenders....." LMFAO

Also, you cant "other way around" that comment. The GT350 came before the Mach1, so YES anything learned making and testing on it was then applied, updated, improved or adapted for the 18+ GT and Mach1. Its literally not physically possible for them to have designed the Mach1 then went back in time to use those changes on the GT350.

If you ONLY use "unique" as a way to qualify if a car is better than another or not then you're living in a very superficial world. I don't care how "unique" a 2013 Leguna Seca Boss is if a 2018 PPL2 is kicking its ass in daily drivability, reliability and around the track on weekends, the PPL2 is the better car. Is the BOSS still cool? Yeah, but its NOT the better car in any form.

Hell if all that matters is Cool Factor then I'd place a stock Integra Type R over a damn GT350 cuz they are rare as hell and I'd be MASSIVLEY more interested in it at a car show cuz I don't see 1-2 a week. Hell, I see less Mach1's than I do GT350's so... I guess that makes them more unique too.

wtf are you talking about

you asked what made the gt350 special and i answered

now youre moving goal posts

face it, the gt350 got bespoke treatment. that's exclusive. that's special.

the mach 1 gets the leftovers from all the other models. if you care about forums, comparing magazine e-peens about circuit lap times then sure, it's on par. but it's not as unique and that obviously counts for something. when you're driving these on public roads those tenths of a second difference on a track are nonexistent factors

they could slap oem slicks on the mach 1 and say it's faster and i'd still pass it up for the more special gt350

 

[william.t.abel]

As far as a new 7 gen 350, doubtful as it appears that Ford may go a different direction IMO. The debate on the 350 vs Mach... the Mach folks say the Mach is a better car so it is...lol

 

[Schwerin]

wtf are you talking about

you asked what made the gt350 special and i answered

now youre moving goal posts

face it, the gt350 got bespoke treatment. that's exclusive. that's special.

the mach 1 gets the leftovers from all the other models. if you care about forums, comparing magazine e-peens about circuit lap times then sure, it's on par. but it's not as unique and that obviously counts for something. when you're driving these on public roads those tenths of a second difference on a track are nonexistent factors

they could slap oem slicks on the mach 1 and say it's faster and i'd still pass it up for the more special gt350

I never asked what made it special. I asked what made it "way above". You proved it isnt.

 

[OppoLock]

I never asked what made it special. I asked what made it "way above". You proved it isnt.

 

[Katastrophe]

If I may...

Let's just say as far as numbers go, both cars are within a hair. Unless we give the M1 the 10A...

If we're talking about "character"...I don't think much of a debate even exists for that.

Historically, cars that have that X-factor of specialness or uniqueness are always remembered in a more positive light as time goes on. When a car drops and EVERYONE goes..."whoa"...that's a clue. As far as performance cars go, numbers will always be beaten, but the way something feels is forever, IMHO. A bit cliché, sure...

Does this help the current conversation? No idea. But I have popcorn ready lol.

 

[OppoLock]

If I may...

Let's just say as far as numbers go, both cars are within a hair. Unless we give the M1 the 10A...

If we're talking about "character"...I don't think much of a debate even exists for that.

Historically, cars that have that X-factor of specialness or uniqueness are always remembered in a more positive light as time goes on. When a car drops and EVERYONE goes..."whoa"...that's a clue. As far as performance cars go, numbers will always be beaten, but the way something feels is forever, IMHO. A bit cliché, sure...

Does this help the current conversation? No idea. But I have popcorn ready lol.

An apples to pears example would be if the new Z06 ended production but they continued to make a hi-po model. They would just strip all the Z06 bodywork except for the front bumper and rear spoiler, keep all of the suspension and wheel goodness, and beef up the LT2 instead of including the FPC LT6. But let's pretend this hi-po LT2 model is as fast or tenths faster than the Z06. Is it as special? Or would the LT6 and unique body work put it "way above" lol

 

[Katastrophe]

An apples to pears example would be if the new Z06 ended production but they continued to make a hi-po model. They would just strip all the Z06 bodywork except for the front bumper and rear spoiler, keep all of the suspension and wheel goodness, and beef up the LT2 instead of including the FPC LT6. But let's pretend this hi-po LT2 model is as fast or tenths faster than the Z06. Is it as special? Or would the LT6 and unique body work put it "way above" lol

Funny you should mention that because I've been wondering if Chevy is going to revive the Grand Sport moniker for use on the C8...

What you're describing...I'd look at it simply as objectivity vs subjectivity. Objectively, the upgraded car can hang on a race track with the "special" one. Subjectively, it'll never "feel" the same. Let's use something that isn't a hypothetical...the new AMG C63. The new one will surely crush any C class AMG that has come before it. Yet, it's powered by a 4 cylinder hybrid powertrain. Will it be an awesome car to drive? Most definitely. Would I take the OLD C63 6.3 over it? You bet. That's the pinnacle for me. Same goes with the BMW M3. Gimme' the I6 NA or S65 V8 any day.

In the case of the M1 vs GT350, objectively the M1 is the better buy. The car should be more reliable and the parts needed to keep it running over the years will be cheaper. On track it delivers the numbers and also provides a serious performance option for those who don't want to row their own gears...not to mention a higher level of creature comfort/luxury. However, it does miss out on the specialness that the GT350 exudes. Whether that matters, is all personal opinion.

 

[DeluxeStang]

I would be all for that shit

As long as they let the fun run up to 8000rpm plus so we can play pedal songs I’m fully in

Oh of course. I'll be curious to see how high the racecars with this engine rev. That could be an indicator of what a street version would be like, but we'll see.

 

[DeluxeStang]

Had a few friends with voodoo engines. Almost every one but one had a engine replaced at one point or another. There's a law suit over it as well. I guess reliable enough but being off the koolaid this is not normal or acceptable ever for a high performance car.

It's not just ford, the zo6's are also having some of their engines replaced sadly. Saw one that had engine issues after about 50 miles. Hope ford and gm are both able to perfect this type of design over time because it really is incredible.

 

[DeluxeStang]

Funny you should mention that because I've been wondering if Chevy is going to revive the Grand Sport moniker for use on the C8...

What you're describing...I'd look at it simply as objectivity vs subjectivity. Objectively, the upgraded car can hang on a race track with the "special" one. Subjectively, it'll never "feel" the same. Let's use something that isn't a hypothetical...the new AMG C63. The new one will surely crush any C class AMG that has come before it. Yet, it's powered by a 4 cylinder hybrid powertrain. Will it be an awesome car to drive? Most definitely. Would I take the OLD C63 6.3 over it? You bet. That's the pinnacle for me. Same goes with the BMW M3. Gimme' the I6 NA or S65 V8 any day.

In the case of the M1 vs GT350, objectively the M1 is the better buy. The car should be more reliable and the parts needed to keep it running over the years will be cheaper. On track it delivers the numbers and also provides a serious performance option for those who don't want to row their own gears...not to mention a higher level of creature comfort/luxury. However, it does miss out on the specialness that the GT350 exudes. Whether that matters, is all personal opinion.

You make some valid points, but I'd argue when you're buying a sports car, the feelings it gives you surpass the actual performance numbers. In terms of performance numbers, it's not terribly surprising to see that the m1 is faster on many tracks. That's just engineers doing what engineers do, learning and improving on something already great to make it even better, at least in terms of objective metrics.

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