2024 Dark Horse Mustang vs 2023 BMW M2 - Car and Driver Comparison Review

[Dave2013M3]

I think they are great looking cars in person. They are also a lot larger standing next to one.

I have a Toronto Red on order with the bicolor wheels though.

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[OppoLock]

I sure will! It also looks much better than the M2.

I still enjoy my Mustang too, but on those dreary days, it's no good to me.

Pic attached not my car, but same spec I ordered:

Good man, the world needs more purple cars. I'd choose the same spec. Prefer the M240i to the M2 as is; it just looks sharper

 

[OppoLock]

Masterpiece? I don't know man...I lost all interest in BMW since Xdrive appeared so I'm not up to speed on the current models. To me the one on the right has nondescript styling that makes it look like a Japanese or Korean offering, right up until you notice the split grille and the badge. That said in fairness I will admit it is less boring than an Audi. But I expect excitement from BMW. Haven't seen that in a long long time.
The one on the left looks more warlike, more German to me. More like what I would expect the BMWs I used to love to look like in 2024.

BMW's CS models are their uncompromising offerings. The M2 CS specifically being the smallest and lightest makes it one of the best possible cars they've offered in years.

I don't see what you're seeing at all, but to each their own, cheers

 

[OppoLock]

Looks are subjective and I don't mind how the new BMWs look. I am sure I am in the minority on that.

Performance however is not subjective. The Dark Horse fully optioned is over 91k. (Including stripes and carbon fiber wheels). Decline those options and you have a 75k ballpark car with the HP. (I personally see zero reason to get a non HP DH) That price puts the Mustang at 10k over the GT 350. 75k for a non Shelby.

The Dark Horse does perform well on a track in stock form (for a few laps at least) with the Trofeo R tires. What would a vastly cheaper M2 do with those same tires? Or better, what does a Dark Horse look like without those? Cup 2s is as far as I was willing to go for part time track use on my cars. PS4S is what I use for street driving. What does the DH performance numbers look like on PS4S?

In all performance except the track, the DH is already out hustled by its little brother the GT in manual form. The fact that a GT will do a 12.5 1/4 mile that still doesn't match the 2016 SS is embarrassing enough. The DH needing 12.6 is awful. The auto version of course is faster at a 12.0-12.2. Unfortunately at that price point there are cars doing that in mid to low 11s.

Only reason I can see buying a DH is if you absolutely must have a V8 manual with tracking ability from the factory. This is something only the DH offers and you will pay a premium for it.

Think we're agreeing on some things and disagreeing on others but I'm trying to track

First on price, while again I 100% agree the DH is overpriced I just don't understand where you're getting these 75k figures from

Straight from their site with all basic fees:

Base DH

Premium DH

As far as measuring the performance of these cars, nobody should be surprised that they're--from every practical measure--virtually identical cars in all things that would impact straight line speed; the DH and GT share the same powertrain and Ford's claiming all of 15 extra peak ponies in the DH (over a GT with NPP) of which we've seen is all at the very tippy top of the rev range. So they weigh more or less the same, have the same autos, the same basic powerplants, they're going to be the same in a straight line

Speaking from experience, the extra money that goes into the 350, M1, and DH over stuff like the PP2 are the improved dampers, bracing, cooling, brakes, and tremec, and of course the tires. Even removing the tires, the improvements were huge. Ford just dropping the idea of a bespoke engine is what kills the value, especially when they also continue to strip a lot of the bespoke touches to the rest of the car, like unique seats (recaros in the 350), placards (350's placards, steering wheel, dash), body panels (350 had totally unique bumpers, hood, and tips, introduced a fresh spoiler to the lineup) versus the M1 (had subtly unique front bumper, mildly changed rear diffuser and tips, reused spoiler from GT350 and tips from GT500) and DH (unique front bumper, slightly bigger rear diffuser, tips, new spoiler). So bodywork and exclusivity aside, the money goes into the driving experience

I can’t speak to the difference between driving an S650 GTPP vs a DH, but I can speak to owning and extensively driving the balls off of my S550 GTPP and 350, and they were night and day regardless of how you drove them, from the moment you turned the wheel, hit a bump, shifted, did anything. The numbers were a background irrelevance, excluding the voodoo for that matter. The driving experience was 100% worth the premium alone

Regardless, it just feels like a combo of inflation and recycling hurting it, I’m just not putting merit into the straight line numbers when it comes to figuring out the value of the DH over a GT PP

So I agree with you on the big picture items

 

[Evo1986]

The new M2 from the front looks like it left the LEGO factory...

 

[Mustang406]

Think we're agreeing on some things and disagreeing on others but I'm trying to track

First on price, while again I 100% agree the DH is overpriced I just don't understand where you're getting these 75k figures from

Straight from their site with all basic fees:

Base DH

Premium DH

As far as measuring the performance of these cars, nobody should be surprised that they're--from every practical measure--virtually identical cars in all things that would impact straight line speed; the DH and GT share the same powertrain and Ford's claiming all of 15 extra peak ponies in the DH (over a GT with NPP) of which we've seen is all at the very tippy top of the rev range. So they weigh more or less the same, have the same autos, the same basic powerplants, they're going to be the same in a straight line

Speaking from experience, the extra money that goes into the 350, M1, and DH over stuff like the PP2 are the improved dampers, bracing, cooling, brakes, and tremec, and of course the tires. Even removing the tires, the improvements were huge. Ford just dropping the idea of a bespoke engine is what kills the value, especially when they also continue to strip a lot of the bespoke touches to the rest of the car, like unique seats (recaros in the 350), placards (350's placards, steering wheel, dash), body panels (350 had totally unique bumpers, hood, and tips, introduced a fresh spoiler to the lineup) versus the M1 (had subtly unique front bumper, mildly changed rear diffuser and tips, reused spoiler from GT350 and tips from GT500) and DH (unique front bumper, slightly bigger rear diffuser, tips, new spoiler). So bodywork and exclusivity aside, the money goes into the driving experience

I can’t speak to the difference between driving an S650 GTPP vs a DH, but I can speak to owning and extensively driving the balls off of my S550 GTPP and 350, and they were night and day regardless of how you drove them, from the moment you turned the wheel, hit a bump, shifted, did anything. The numbers were a background irrelevance, excluding the voodoo for that matter. The driving experience was 100% worth the premium alone

Regardless, it just feels like a combo of inflation and recycling hurting it, I’m just not putting merit into the straight line numbers when it comes to figuring out the value of the DH over a GT PP

So I agree with you on the big picture items

Where I am getting 75k from is how I would spec a DH. DH Premium, HP, Ember blue metallic is 72,705. TTL around 75k. Yes you can get one lower but without the handling pack I can't see myself driving it.

I never owned a 350. One of life's regrets. I did own several GT PP1s an SS 1LE and a Mach 1. The Mach 1 while I liked that car it didn't feel special. It didn't have a bespoke engine like the 350 and it drove on the street like a GT. I am making an assumption that the Dark Horse is similar. (People who have a DH let me know if I am mistaken).

For 69k Premium DH, HP no appearance package I feel as if Ford missed an opportunity. Thus far the S650 doesn't significantly outperform the S550 in my opinion and with an all new nameplate Ford could have offered something really special and we got a slightly faster (?) Mach 1 instead with a really cool color option.

If the Dark Horse is truly a vastly different driving experience like the GT350 was compared to a GT then I might change my mind. If it is a new Mach 1 that is slightly different but frustratingly also much the same experience as a GT then I can't see buying one over a GT.

 

[OppoLock]

Where I am getting 75k from is how I would spec a DH. DH Premium, HP, Ember blue metallic is 72,705. TTL around 75k. Yes you can get one lower but without the handling pack I can't see myself driving it.

I never owned a 350. One of life's regrets. I did own several GT PP1s an SS 1LE and a Mach 1. The Mach 1 while I liked that car it didn't feel special. It didn't have a bespoke engine like the 350 and it drove on the street like a GT. I am making an assumption that the Dark Horse is similar. (People who have a DH let me know if I am mistaken).

For 69k Premium DH, HP no appearance package I feel as if Ford missed an opportunity. Thus far the S650 doesn't significantly outperform the S550 in my opinion and with an all new nameplate Ford could have offered something really special and we got a slightly faster (?) Mach 1 instead with a really cool color option.

If the Dark Horse is truly a vastly different driving experience like the GT350 was compared to a GT then I might change my mind. If it is a new Mach 1 that is slightly different but frustratingly also much the same experience as a GT then I can't see buying one over a GT.

I hear you, agreed on all those points

 

[roadpilot]

Ahhh, yes, more L/R/R.

 

[Zcarmenb28]

there’s too much focus on one magazine article and it’s NOT what we’re seeing in the real world.
In real world testing the mustang GT dominates the Camaro and runs almost as fast as the ZL1s are running.

a base 10r80 GT is closer to a Zl1 in the 1/4 than a SS/ SS1le

Ha! That’s hilarious.

 

[Zengineer]

I have a Toronto Red on order with the bicolor wheels though.

I've had 3 BMWs and used to consider some of their designs almost timeless. I actually like the recent 4 series but I understand why some are appalled by it.



The latest 2 series however...let's just say I understand why you didn't include a front view.

The 2017 440 convertible I have now is a good looking car top up but I freely admit it looks like a bathtub top down.

 

[onaccountof]

The 2017 440 convertible I have now is a good looking car top up but I freely admit it looks like a bathtub top down.

Almost reminds me of a vert sebring I used to own (I had a white '99).

 

[Dave2013M3]

I've had 3 BMWs and used to consider some of their designs almost timeless. I actually like the recent 4 series but I understand why some are appalled by it.



The latest 2 series however...let's just say I understand why you didn't include a front view.

The 2017 440 convertible I have now is a good looking car top up but I freely admit it looks like a bathtub top down.

I love the front of the M2. You assumed incorrectly. Its just where I got those other pics they didn't have one.

 

[Dave2013M3]

Where I am getting 75k from is how I would spec a DH. DH Premium, HP, Ember blue metallic is 72,705. TTL around 75k. Yes you can get one lower but without the handling pack I can't see myself driving it.

I never owned a 350. One of life's regrets. I did own several GT PP1s an SS 1LE and a Mach 1. The Mach 1 while I liked that car it didn't feel special. It didn't have a bespoke engine like the 350 and it drove on the street like a GT. I am making an assumption that the Dark Horse is similar. (People who have a DH let me know if I am mistaken).

For 69k Premium DH, HP no appearance package I feel as if Ford missed an opportunity. Thus far the S650 doesn't significantly outperform the S550 in my opinion and with an all new nameplate Ford could have offered something really special and we got a slightly faster (?) Mach 1 instead with a really cool color option.

If the Dark Horse is truly a vastly different driving experience like the GT350 was compared to a GT then I might change my mind. If it is a new Mach 1 that is slightly different but frustratingly also much the same experience as a GT then I can't see buying one over a GT.

Agreed, I feel the DH missed the boat.

 

[Rocket Man]

DH missed the boat, or GT w PP is the sweet spot?

 

[Klipshpoke]

Where I am getting 75k from is how I would spec a DH. DH Premium, HP, Ember blue metallic is 72,705. TTL around 75k. Yes you can get one lower but without the handling pack I can't see myself driving it.

I never owned a 350. One of life's regrets. I did own several GT PP1s an SS 1LE and a Mach 1. The Mach 1 while I liked that car it didn't feel special. It didn't have a bespoke engine like the 350 and it drove on the street like a GT. I am making an assumption that the Dark Horse is similar. (People who have a DH let me know if I am mistaken).

For 69k Premium DH, HP no appearance package I feel as if Ford missed an opportunity. Thus far the S650 doesn't significantly outperform the S550 in my opinion and with an all new nameplate Ford could have offered something really special and we got a slightly faster (?) Mach 1 instead with a really cool color option.

If the Dark Horse is truly a vastly different driving experience like the GT350 was compared to a GT then I might change my mind. If it is a new Mach 1 that is slightly different but frustratingly also much the same experience as a GT then I can't see buying one over a GT.

I can only tell you that I owned a 2017 GT PP1 manual with the FP power pack 2/Borlas..... I made it about on block before I could tell the DH was different and the difference was enough that I knew I wasn't going back. Everything, I mean everything is an upgrade. The first bitch I have is that it is just slightly quicker than a Power Pack 2 gen two pushing about 405 to the wheels. It just accelerates different, smoother, more consistent, has more low end. I also like the fact that 61 MPH doesn't require 3rd gear. Second bitch is (though I prefer the sound of a DH) it's not as loud as S type Catbacks. That will be solved in the future, but I think this car will only require a Res delete to get to that point.

I think anyone saying these cars missed the boat probably just need to drive one. It doesn't feel like a Mustang.

I really bought this car with full intentions to Whipple it as I didn't feel the want to invest any more in my 17. I'm going to keep it a year and feel it out. Im really kind of hoping FP issues a tune that takes this car to 7800 rpms and 530 HP with a warranty.....then I will go that more cost effective route for sure.

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