Still deciding Dark Horse HP-6sp vs SC

[DarkHorsePremium]

Had a ‘24 Dark Horse non HP but sold to buy my wife’s Bronco Raptor. Looking to re-enter with another DH. I’m not a track guy. I enjoy rowing gears and driving. That’s it.

I think you've already answered your own question. DH+/- HP and a whipple. Then take your wife on a nice holiday.

The only reason I didn't buy the handling pack is because of the 30 series tires. Initially you were looking at $3600to $3900 to replace with a sumner only track tire with 180 or 200 treadwear equaling 6 to 10k miles between replacement. This for a car I wasn't going to track and since I live in NorCal I can't drive on summer only tires year around.

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[Q6543]

If… and big if, you are even seriously considering the SC, it’s the only choice.

or a prior GT500, the drivetrain is just so stout and capable.

 

[Sofa King]

I think you've already answered your own question. DH+/- HP and a whipple. Then take your wife on a nice holiday.

The only reason I didn't buy the handling pack is because of the 30 series tires. Initially you were looking at $3600to $3900 to replace with a sumner only track tire with 180 or 200 treadwear equaling 6 to 10k miles between replacement. This for a car I wasn't going to track and since I live in NorCal I can't drive on summer only tires year around.

Correct me if I'm wrong... doesn't the regular DH still come with summer only tires? Just PZ4 vs Trofeo... not quite as soft or short lived and less expensive, but summer only tires nonetheless.

 

[DarkHorsePremium]

Yes. PZ4's. I'm stuck with them till fall. Then I have to replace with an ultra high performance all season in anticipation of the cooler weather. My preference is Continental or Bridgestone. These work really well here. Good wet / dry traction, decently stiff sidewall, Good tread wear and they don't turn to rocks when it's cold.

 

[topdawg4ever]

So really, I might as well roll with Non Handling, and add the splitter and spoiler. I would replace the tires day 1 with HP.

Yes. PZ4's. I'm stuck with them till fall. Then I have to replace with an ultra high performance all season in anticipation of the cooler weather. My preference is Continental or Bridgestone. These work really well here. Good wet / dry traction, decently stiff sidewall, Good tread wear and they don't turn to rocks when it's cold.

 

[Sofa King]

Yes. PZ4's. I'm stuck with them till fall. Then I have to replace with an ultra high performance all season in anticipation of the cooler weather. My preference is Continental or Bridgestone. These work really well here. Good wet / dry traction, decently stiff sidewall, Good tread wear and they don't turn to rocks when it's cold.

I live farther north... the PZ4's came off at about 100 miles as I got fall delivery. I like the Contintental (on my S550) and Michelin (on my S650) for all seasons.

 

[Junkyard Dog]

Yes. PZ4's. I'm stuck with them till fall. Then I have to replace with an ultra high performance all season in anticipation of the cooler weather. My preference is Continental or Bridgestone. These work really well here. Good wet / dry traction, decently stiff sidewall, Good tread wear and they don't turn to rocks when it's cold.

Eh. We get plenty of cold weather here in Georgia (contrary to most preconceived notions), and I put Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires on mine when the Pirelli Trofeo RS tires wore out. I posted about my driving on them all the way down into the teens (Fahrenheit). I finally stopped posting because it was such a non-issue.

Of course, I expected it to be a non-issue, as I had been driving the same tires on my Audi as year around tires for years, basically ever since the 4S was invented. I was ignorant, in that I did not know I was not "supposed to," but there were no issues. And I still have no issues having finished my first winter with the 4S tires.

Others posted about using them on the racetrack down to 19° F in that same thread.

It was beaten about like a dead horse, with lots of warnings about it being suicidal and all.

Northern California is a big place though. I do not know if you live where you get snow. We do not get snow even when it is cold here (snow is very rare. cold means dry, and wet means warm). If you live by the coast, 4S tires would be great. If you live up in the mountains and must drive in snow, well, I have seen YouTube videos where 4S tires are pretty much useless in snow.

 

[Junkyard Dog]

and once we have lines on the cooling enhancements, we can adopt them in the Peasant Dark Horse w/ HP.

If that were true, folks would be doing the Dark Horse Whipple and simply adopting the GT500 cooling modifications.

It isn't that simple.

Note the speculation that the new Nurburgring time by the GTD was accomplished with a 1000 horsepower brought courtesy of . . . drum roll, please . . . a Whipple. And, um, no overheating for pushing about as hard as can be on the Nurburgring. The GTD has all sorts of extra cooling capacity.

 

[DarkHorsePremium]

@Junkyard Dog,
I am definitely going to explore some different tire brands on the S650. I used Pilots when I drove VW's, and I'm sure I had a set or two on my Subarus. I ran on Bridgestones the longest and then rolled on Conti's for a good long while.

I've never been a big fan of Perelli's but that's what came on the car. I see now that the PZ4 are good down to 45*. I live near SF on the coast. It's cold and wet, but the climate has changed dramatically in the last 50 years I've lived here. High school was cold, wet and foggy. No snow to speak of unless you go up in elevation. As time has passed temps have steadily risen. We have low mountains that shield us from extremes. They often pull in the marine layer from the ocean. Now when it's hot other places our beaches fill up with visitors. The lowest temps I see is typically 34-37* (mornings) but average is mid/high 50's during the coldest months. So it looks like I can run on the PZ4's safely until they go. Happy you mentioned it. At that point I could go to a UHPAS like the Pilot 4s. Just priced a set. They are very reasonable and I'm very familiar with michelin's quality / safety. If they are quiet I may check a set out. Thanks.

The Trofeos have a similar temp rating. I would want something with better tread wear, but for tack purposes, I'll bet they are super sticky and fun. The DH with the PZ4's is worlds apart from my STI and the Conti's. It raised my eyebrows this morning.

100% agree on the enhanced cooling between the DH, SC and GTD. The SC is claimed to have up to 60% more airflow through its grill over the standard DH.

@topdawg4ever this is still your thread. Let us know what you decide. Best of luck with your decision.

 

[Ewags81]

I enjoy rowing gears

there's your answer

I might as well roll with Non Handling, and add the splitter and spoiler. I would replace the tires day 1 with HP.

probably better to buy it than build it. bigger tires sure. splitter okay. but if you're going to build an HP car, why not just order it. I'm sure your resale will be much better if it came from the factory that way.

The only reason I didn't buy the handling pack is because of the 30 series tires.

same here. if the car came equipped with Michelin 4s, i was in all day for the hp. i bought the car to drive ALOT.

 

[tastetickles]

You might be able to replicate the cooling capacity of SC on a non SC hardware wise but the car’s response to cooling is still based off implied data. Unless you can bypass those I would just get a SC and not worry about it.

Ford did the same thing on the Focus RS and deactivate the RDU after 3 small track laps because it think it’s overheating but there is no temp sensor at all on the RDU.

 

[ChitownStang]

You will have to work to stay at +10k and under and work HARD.



and once we have lines on the cooling enhancements, we can adopt them in the Peasant Dark Horse w/ HP. Right now it's more of a guessing game, there's limited feedback on problems / fixes. The 10r80 even with the HP cooler is one issue and the engine cooling, possibly another. But we'll get there.

We got there with the Fox body 302's with 3.73's, we'll get there with the 7th Gen Coyote. And still be paying less than the SC.

Does the HP Dark Horse have better coolers than the Non-HP? I never knew that

 

[OX1]

Eh. We get plenty of cold weather here in Georgia (contrary to most preconceived notions), and I put Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires on mine when the Pirelli Trofeo RS tires wore out. I posted about my driving on them all the way down into the teens (Fahrenheit). I finally stopped posting because it was such a non-issue.

Haven't taken my PS4S's down that low, have AS 3++ for the winter (since we do get snow),
but running them down to 32-35, they drive 85-90% of what they do @ 70+ warmed up.

If your running 700+ HP in the winter, maybe you have to be careful (as you would with almost any tire in winter). But outside of that, the "low temp hysteria" for summer tires (especially PS4S) is way overblown.

 

[Junkyard Dog]

The Trofeos have a similar temp rating.

Just FYI, the Trofeos and the PS4S are nothing at all alike in colder weather. It is not even close. I know this from experience driving both in colder weather. I posted about that in the same thread. The Trofeos would slip even trying to get the car moving under normal or light acceleration in the cold.

I loved driving the Trofeos in the summer in the dry. I loved them on track. I hated them when it rained or when the temperatures dropped. And, of course, tread wear (real world, not the rating). I already have something like 4,000 miles on the PS4S, and they look new. The Trofeos were mostly done by that many miles.

And one more observation. For all of the great traction they provide under breaking and turning, the Trofeos were not all that great at full throttle acceleration grip. I don't know why. It is just something I noticed. In spite of them being sticky, at lower speeds it was pretty easy to break them loose with the throttle. I am not sure why that did not apply to high speed throttle off turns, but, well, there it is. Just something I noticed. If drag racing I would want a more drag focused tire. Different purpose, different design.

 

[BimmerDriver]

Does the HP Dark Horse have better coolers than the Non-HP? I never knew that

It does not. It's a handling package, suspension, wheels/tires, and a wee bit of aero.

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