Carbon Filter RWHP?

[Q6543]

So, are you calling Tony out for making the dyno results up?

No, but I am claiming dyno jet results don’t necessarily translate into real world results.

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[young at heart]

Tony compared a 2021 Mach 1 without carbon traps to a 2022 with them, claiming "this is the only difference between the two cars". BS. And that proves NOTHING, other than one car returned different numbers than a different car. Run the 22 with and without the CTs.

I've seen plenty of other videos with dyno runs that confirm there is no appreciable HP difference with the S650 by removing the carbon traps. And everybody knows that changing a factory CAI for an aftermarket CAI *with no other change* will produce little to NO difference in HP.

Presenting something AS fact doesn't make it fact.

You need to slow down and actually watch the video I posted. That is *EXACTLY* what Tony did. Baseline dyno run with the CT, removed the CT and did another dyno run. Same day, same ‘22 Mach with and without the CT. Not sure how you missed this if you watched the video.

 

[young at heart]

No, but I am claiming dyno jet results don’t necessarily translate into real world results.

I don’t think I’d dispute that at all, but that wasn’t how the OP put his question forth. He was asking about actual RWHP, which is normally measured on a dyno.

Therefore my response.

As far as real world results are concerned I currently own a 2020 A10 460 hp/3.15s, a 2023 A10 470 hp/3.55s, a 2023 M6 470 hp/3.73s and a 2024 A10 486 hp/3.15s. On any given day outside the manual trans car I’m not sure there’s much if any difference in the feel of any of them. They all run really strong and are a lot of fun to drive. Any one of them will very quickly exceed the bounds of sanity on the street.

 

[onaccountof]

This is a good look into the carbon trap removal thing on 2024s:

 

[Zig]

How much are the flappers in the active exhaust worth? Does the ‘tune’ adjust? Every ‘little’ bit helps when it’s ever so close. Heat and disintegration (unless they are constantly getting bathed with oily vapors) are a terrible thing to have in the intake. Do non auto ss cars really need them, already paid the ‘tax’.

but and although, an unobstructed intake normally flows better, however on occasion directional vanes are used to manipulate velocity/flow.

I almost wonder if they are worth it but not in the way most assume, with the traps in place may you be able to periodically claim the reported 15-20 gained by running without any airfilter (and replace/reinstall after the ‘run’), that there ‘carbon’ screen/filter isn’t gonna let anything too large get by, without the normally associated hesitancy?

 

[Farmer Fran]

I guess i should have asked "is it worth taking them out"

Seems to be a resounding no.

 

[Mastermind46]

Changing filter media does actually make a difference. Typically this difference is at the expense of filtration efficiency. For race cars that is not as much of an issue. For a daily driver, I am not a fan.

I brought a filter to market that specifically focused on filtration efficiency and is reusable. Using a media with tighter structure allowed for us to hit the filtration goal but I was shocked that it also flowed that much better compared to OEM. Not sure you will be able to feel the difference but it is measurable.

I drove to the dyno shop (45 mins), car sat for 30 mins then was strapped to the dyno. Used a large fan positioned in front of the car. We did all runs in 20 minutes including the filter change. OEM filters have ~2000 miles. ThInK filters have ~2000 miles on them.

No snake oil here. The stock air filters have a significantly greater resistance to flow (dP). Paper filters have to be thick and have a lot more material due to the nonuniform structure but the media is cheap.

Stock HP runs were 374/335 & 376/334
ThInK Filters were 384/336 & 383/336

The fluid dynamics make sense but I did not expect to see anything when including all of the mechanical losses. I also did not expect the car to be so consistent pull to pull.

Removing the lids with the hood open and a fan blowing on the engine bay had the best results. This is my biggest issue with the open box intakes. In order to get an apples to apples comparison you need to have the hood shut.

Stock with hood open and lids off were 386/338 & 384/337.
ThInK Filters with hood open and lids off were 382/341 (dyno shut down early) & 390/339.

If I can get my hands on a second set of intake pipes, I am more than happy to do similar testing with the carbon traps installed and removed but I am going to keep mine stock living in Denver. Also, I am very interested in testing AFTERMARKET carbon traps like what Cobb produces for their F-150 intakes.

 

[roadpilot]

You need to slow down and actually watch the video I posted. That is *EXACTLY* what Tony did. Baseline dyno run with the CT, removed the CT and did another dyno run. Same day, same ‘22 Mach with and without the CT. Not sure how you missed this if you watched the video.

I did.

CT removal and changing filter media wont' change chit.

A CAI without a tune is nothing more than a pretty accessory.

 

[roadpilot]

The single pipe on a s550 might of made a difference, as the open air box on the mach1 / bullet did make a difference vs gt.
On the s650 there is no such gains to have. The active exhaust on the gt makes barely any power. The dh requiring higher octane fuel makes a small difference.
The core engine is now the limit not the things bolted to it.

Nearly of the gain numbers are within run to run variation. They should really put the traps back in to do a good back to back

^This.

 

[roadpilot]

Removing the lids with the hood open and a fan blowing on the engine bay had the best results.

Because that's the way all of us drive around town, right?

You can see 8 - 10 HP difference simply by doing two dyno runs an hour apart having changed absolutely nothing on the vehicle (e.g., ambient temp changes, etc.). That negates any perceived "difference" changing filter media might be suspected of "producing".

 

[Mastermind46]

Because that's the way all of us drive around town, right?

You can see 8 - 10 HP difference simply by doing two dyno runs an hour apart having changed absolutely nothing on the vehicle (e.g., ambient temp changes, etc.). That negates any perceived "difference" changing filter media might be suspected of "producing".

Yeah, the fan makes sense but you have to run with the hood closed. This is why I did both. I wanted to see how much of a difference having the hood open and the intake box lids off made since so many others do their testing this way. Also completed all 8 runs in 20 minutes to, again, remove any environmental factors.

 

[Farmer Fran]

We need a dyno in a 200mph wind tunnel

 

[smurfslayer]

Here’s the thing about dynamometer measurements.

They’re hotly contested on internet forums. If you’ve done a mod, and produce dyno graphs, there will be
- several users wanting to know what parts you used
- several users wanting to know what model of dyno you used because whatever dyno YOU ran on, is a total inaccurate piece of shìt
- a few users will question your methodology
- a few users will point out you did it completely wrong
- if there’s a video, some users will insinuate it’s manipulated.
- if there are eyewitnesses, their veracity will be called into question.
- even if you go back and do everything the above users tell you that you did wrong the first time, it won’t be enough because they will find new reasons that completely invalidate your results
(nothing has changed in 25 years)

Remember: This is the internet. EVERYONE on here is a mechanical engineer either by profession or in our spare time, when we’re done doing charitable work, after working part time as a partner at our law firm after having worked in law enforcement after a distinguished military career as a tier one operator.

 

[robvas]

The engine is not being restricted by two OEM air filters. Funny how last years model made the same power with just one...

 

[Farmer Fran]

Here’s the thing about dynamometer measurements.

They’re hotly contested on internet forums. If you’ve done a mod, and produce dyno graphs, there will be
- several users wanting to know what parts you used
- several users wanting to know what model of dyno you used because whatever dyno YOU ran on, is a total inaccurate piece of shìt
- a few users will question your methodology
- a few users will point out you did it completely wrong
- if there’s a video, some users will insinuate it’s manipulated.
- if there are eyewitnesses, their veracity will be called into question.
- even if you go back and do everything the above users tell you that you did wrong the first time, it won’t be enough because they will find new reasons that completely invalidate your results
(nothing has changed in 25 years)

Remember: This is the internet. EVERYONE on here is a mechanical engineer either by profession or in our spare time, when we’re done doing charitable work, after working part time as a partner at our law firm after having worked in law enforcement after a distinguished military career as a tier one operator.

Almost, I am a Doctor not a lawyer. But the rest is right.

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