S650 production ending in 2028 - according to new union contract

[Zig]

That is how business works. You invest in new areas and then reap the rewards later.

There is no 'souring'. Loads of new models coming to the market, sales huge and rising. Sales don't lie.

When production increases exponentially but sales increase linearly souring does have a tendency to spoil the outcome.

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[Gregs24]

When production increases exponentially but sales increase linearly souring does have a tendency to spoil the outcome.

Have you looked outside the US at all? Cars a global market you know!

 

[horned-toad]

sales huge and rising. Sales don't lie.

except just because a short segment of the graph as a slope of X doesn't mean that the future slope will be >=X. X can go negative. Which is what Ford is being slapped in the face with.

What's the sales rate of cell phones? It was rising rapidly too, untill it just flat-lined and hit saturation.

What is the %age for EV saturation? I don't know. but it'll keel over far below 100%. I'd be very surprised if it got as far as 30.

Here in DC hybrids took off like a rocket about 10 years ago, we were inundated with the Toyota runabouts. Why? Free HoV access. When they rescinded that the numbers CRASHED. The current mania over EV will do the same until it hits economic equilibrium, assuming no further gov't meddling.

Has TESLA actually made a single penny of profit on it's cars now? It wasn't too many quarters ago that all the so-called profits was from selling carbon indulgences. Which was a travesty in it's own right.

 

[Gregs24]

except just because a short segment of the graph as a slope of X doesn't mean that the future slope will be >=X. X can go negative. Which is what Ford is being slapped in the face with.

What's the sales rate of cell phones? It was rising rapidly too, untill it just flat-lined and hit saturation.

What is the %age for EV saturation? I don't know. but it'll keel over far below 100%. I'd be very surprised if it got as far as 30.

Look to Norway to see what is going to happen, new car sales 88%EV in 2022. Already over 30% of the total are EV/PHEV.

Ford in US doing just fine Ford sets EV sales record in Nov as Lightning becomes bestseller (electrek.co)

Globally making EV's outside the US too

 

[Zig]

Look to Norway to see what is going to happen, new car sales 88%EV in 2022. Already over 30% of the total are EV/PHEV.

Ford in US doing just fine Ford sets EV sales record in Nov as Lightning becomes bestseller (electrek.co)

Globally making EV's outside the US too

Acknowledging no more weight than a meme:

monthly ev sales record: 1 million. Tesla recall: 2 million.

 

[agreywolfe]

Acknowledging no more weight than a meme:

monthly ev sales record: 1 million. Tesla recall: 2 million.

Just adding here: the tesla recall is for the self driving software, not the car itself

 

[horned-toad]

Look to Norway

Norway has a miniscule population highly concentrated in small locales, and immense gov't wealth from state oil company and can jury-rig EV support without ANY concern for economic fallout. and should NEVER be used as an example of real-world adoption.

Saudi Arabia and other countries can massively distort their choices thru huge wealth. Hell even the failing communist dictatorship of Maduro can 'sell' gasoline for pennies to its people even though the true cost is massively higher.

You EV sycophants seem to have a massive mental block against REALITY be it physics and economics. I can make anything work in the postage stamp that is Connecticut or Rhoad Island. But it fails spectacularly in next door New York.

 

[horned-toad]

Just adding here: the tesla recall is for the self driving software, not the car itself

FINALLY! He should be sued for false advertising and forced to refund every penny and then civil penalties/fines on top. And frankly every death that arose from "self driving" should also garner a payout - not a huge one, say 50,000 to a charity because most the fault is the moron at the wheel who deliberately chose to cleanse the gene pool in support of laziness.

 

[9secondko]

That is how business works. You invest in new areas and then reap the rewards later.

There is no 'souring'. Loads of new models coming to the market, sales huge and rising. Sales don't lie.

ZERO diect profit=BAD business.

again, hence the souring.

big holes where money is supposed to be doesn’t lie.

the problem comes with selling vehicles at massive losses to get volume - with no guarantees that it will turn profitable or sustain volume one you inevitably have to drive prices up-especially when prices are already high. That’s some actual sour grapes right there.

 

[9secondko]

FINALLY! He should be sued for false advertising and forced to refund every penny and then civil penalties/fines on top. And frankly every death that arose from "self driving" should also garner a payout - not a huge one, say 50,000 to a charity because most the fault is the moron at the wheel who deliberately chose to cleanse the gene pool in support of laziness.

disagree. Tesla were being the cool kids and using cool kid marketing.
All was well and good with the powers that be until Elon bought Twitter and start getting threatened that investigations were forthcoming.

It’s very difficult to buy a Tesla and miss the details on what “autopilot” and “FSD” entail. But it could be a different story in a used car market. So ultimately changing the nomenclature is a good move.

next, there will be news of blue cruise being banned because there’s nothing blue about it.

 

[Gregs24]

Norway has a miniscule population highly concentrated in small locales, and immense gov't wealth from state oil company and can jury-rig EV support without ANY concern for economic fallout. and should NEVER be used as an example of real-world adoption.

Saudi Arabia and other countries can massively distort their choices thru huge wealth. Hell even the failing communist dictatorship of Maduro can 'sell' gasoline for pennies to its people even though the true cost is massively higher.

You EV sycophants seem to have a massive mental block against REALITY be it physics and economics. I can make anything work in the postage stamp that is Connecticut or Rhoad Island. But it fails spectacularly in next door New York.

I'm no EV sycophant - I drive a Mustang FFS!

Most people live in cities in most countries so the comments you make are irrelevant. Actually EV's work really well in cities (where most people work). Norway IS real world adoption, as is also the case in other European cities and countries such as China. Remember oil companies get subsidies too!

It doesn't really matter what you think - ZEV's are the future now whether that be BEV, FCEV, PHEV or hydrogen combustion. Car makers globally are only really investing in this now and in fact if legacy car makers don't hurry up then Chinese backed companies will hoover up everything before them. Ford know this, which is why they build and sell cars in China.

You can keep shouting at the sky but the world is moving on without you. I will be sad to see the end of the ICE car, but also know just how good an EV can be (we also have a PHEV Kuga (Escape) and how much BETTER they are for most people who just want to go from A to B with no fuss.

 

[Gregs24]

Acknowledging no more weight than a meme:

monthly ev sales record: 1 million. Tesla recall: 2 million.

Try writing actual sentences so that you can be understood.

Tesla recall is OTA update - hardly a big deal

 

[Gregs24]

FINALLY! He should be sued for false advertising and forced to refund every penny and then civil penalties/fines on top. And frankly every death that arose from "self driving" should also garner a payout - not a huge one, say 50,000 to a charity because most the fault is the moron at the wheel who deliberately chose to cleanse the gene pool in support of laziness.

I'm no fan of self driving, but sued for what exactly? 'False advertising'? How does a recall (and Tesla are not unique to recalls) indicate false advertising?

most the fault is the moron at the wheel who deliberately chose to cleanse the gene pool in support of laziness

What does this mean?

 

[Gregs24]

disagree. Tesla were being the cool kids and using cool kid marketing.
All was well and good with the powers that be until Elon bought Twitter and start getting threatened that investigations were forthcoming.

It’s very difficult to buy a Tesla and miss the details on what “autopilot” and “FSD” entail. But it could be a different story in a used car market. So ultimately changing the nomenclature is a good move.

next, there will be news of blue cruise being banned because there’s nothing blue about it.

Many of these self driving features are a dead end in reality. Adaptive cruise works well, Intelligent cruise doesn't work reliably or safely. Going a step further than intelligent cruise is a folly.

 

[Gregs24]

ZERO diect profit=BAD business.

again, hence the souring.

big holes where money is supposed to be doesn’t lie.

the problem comes with selling vehicles at massive losses to get volume - with no guarantees that it will turn profitable or sustain volume one you inevitably have to drive prices up-especially when prices are already high. That’s some actual sour grapes right there.

R&D costs money before you sell a single product.

Ford is making money on every car it sells (they are not stupid) and those sales chip away at the R&D costs over time. If you get it right then you make a profit overall by the time you stop making the car, if you don't you lose money on that product. Car makers have done both and being an EV or not doesn't change this. What DOES change it is that EV's are a growth market and ICE is a shrinking market, I know which I would invest in!

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