S650 GT @ Charlotte Auto Show

[designatedrhythm]

I drove a C8 for 40 minutes thanks to CarMax - see if you can wrangle a 24hr rental. I'm decidedly not interested in the C8 anymore.

What turned you off of it?

 

[shogun32]

What turned you off of it?

no stick - specificallyt the DCT shift-strategy kept bogging the motor down to 1500 RPM. It was less obnoxious about it in SPort/Track mode but still pointless and annoying. A shift/clutch-by-wire stick would go SO FAR to fix this!

The paddles were incredibly cheap feeling and had massive travel. They should be short-throw micro-contact switches.

cabin was obnoxiously "driver-focused" and in so doing the view to the auxiliary screen was shrouded by not only my hands but also the steering wheel. When you have to move your head off-axis to see the left 3rd of the screen there is something wrong with design.

steering wheel too small. the arms/shoulders expect a certain 'splay' angle and it was too narrow. But not horribly so. The grip surface contour was pretty good though.

seat is very low, lower than my Camaro. I realize it goes with the territory...

The dash surface was incredibly deep and front glass obscenely 'out there'. Pull it back 6 inches, give it a more vertical angle and pull the eye-brow back 2" an higher by 2" and it would have been vastly better. Classic case of someone losing the plot in the name of a drawing that looked "cool" on paper. Had to crane my head to see the traffic light. Not as bad as in the Camaro FWIW. Does GM not employ people over the height of 5 ft 6?

rear view cluttered with all kinds of reflections and glare from that engine cover etc. Should have just made it a camera shot from an un-obstructed vantage point.

Did some S-bends at a decent clip. Tracks true enough but doesn't give the feeling it's actually going to finish the arc. I don't like cars you have to trust blindly. It should give you feedback that gives confidence that it IS up to the task.

 

[designatedrhythm]

no stick - specificallyt the DCT shift-strategy kept bogging the motor down to 1500 RPM. It was less obnoxious about it in SPort/Track mode but still pointless and annoying. A shift/clutch-by-wire stick would go SO FAR to fix this!

The paddles were incredibly cheap feeling and had massive travel. They should be short-throw micro-contact switches.

cabin was obnoxiously "driver-focused" and in so doing the view to the auxiliary screen was shrouded by not only my hands but also the steering wheel. When you have to move your head off-axis to see the left 3rd of the screen there is something wrong with design.

steering wheel too small. the arms/shoulders expect a certain 'splay' angle and it was too narrow. But not horribly so. The grip surface contour was pretty good though.

seat is very low, lower than my Camaro. I realize it goes with the territory...

The dash surface was incredibly long and front glass obscenely 'out there'. Pull it back 6 inches, give it a more vertical angle and pull the eye-brow back 2" an higher by 2" and it would have been vastly better. Classic case of someone losing the plot in the name of a drawing that looked "cool" on paper. Had to crane my head to see the traffic light. Not as bad as in the Camaro FWIW. Does GM not employ people over the height of 5 ft 6?

rear view cluttered with all kinds of reflections and glare from that engine cover etc. Should have just made it a camera shot from an un-obstructed vantage point.

Did some S-bends at a decent clip. Tracks true enough but doesn't give the feeling it's actually going to finish the arc. I don't like cars you have to trust blindly. It should give you feedback that gives confidence it IS up to the task.

Great detailed response. Maybe I'll keep lusting after the new mustang and M2 then....

 

[Zcarmenb28]

The S650 is just a S550 with new sheetmetal and dash. It’s a poor attempt at a new Gen.

The front and rear overhangs are entirely too long. They look absolutely silly, that front overhang is like a front wheel drive proportion, I think it just looks awful. And thanks to the OP for pointing out the very long trunk lid deck, that thing is ridiculous.

I agree with the others who are saying that all the hard points and structural metal are probably identical between S550 and S650. The roofline is the same, don’t be fooled.

To those comparing this to the new edge Mustang, that was the same generation just a redesign. Ford is claiming this is a new generation, however, in reality it’s just a redesign of sheet metal and interior dash.

 

[DeluxeStang]

The S650 is just a S550 with new sheetmetal and dash. It’s a poor attempt at a new Gen.

The front and rear overhangs are entirely too long. They look absolutely silly, that front overhang is like a front wheel drive proportion, I think it just looks awful. And thanks to the OP for pointing out the very long trunk lid deck, that thing is ridiculous.

I agree with the others who are saying that all the hard points and structural metal are probably identical between S550 and S650. The roofline is the same, don’t be fooled.

To those comparing this to the new edge Mustang, that was the same generation just a redesign. Ford is claiming this is a new generation, however, in reality it’s just a redesign of sheet metal and interior dash.

Wait 'till you see "new" generations of the 911. That will make the s650 seem like a radical departure by comparison.

 

[Charlemagne]

Wait 'till you see "new" generations of the 911. That will make the s650 seem like a radical departure by comparison.

Gotta agree here, why should new generation look drastically different? They got it right with S550 so they just tweaked it a bit to make it different enough (even too much for me, haha). 911 is nice example that when it's great, keep it that way.

 

[Ace]

no stick - specificallyt the DCT shift-strategy kept bogging the motor down to 1500 RPM. It was less obnoxious about it in SPort/Track mode but still pointless and annoying. A shift/clutch-by-wire stick would go SO FAR to fix this!

The paddles were incredibly cheap feeling and had massive travel. They should be short-throw micro-contact switches.

I don't get those points. Of course the dct in tour mode shifts to the highest gear possible for fuel economy. You can overwrite it anytime, go to a sportier mode that holds higher rpms or just go into the manual mode for complete freedom. Honestly the C8 DCT is the best programmed automatic I have driven, it reacts instantly to the throttle, so a kickdown always results in fast low gears with punch.

Compared to Fords 10 speed in the Mustang, even if you kick down in sportier modes it always shifts down in 2-3 steps and what feels like a whole second before you have the punch you wanted. And with 10 gears it's just horrible to shift manually, you're constantly clicking. Even the GT500s 7-speed has the problem that you wait for the computer to get what you want to do with a kickdown.

And the C8 has real metal paddles compared to Mustangs or Camaros cheap plastic ones.

But comparing Mustang and C8 is overall pretty useless, totally different cars with totally different target audiences. If you are looking for a pure sportscar you won't buy a Mustang, if you want a Grand Tourer for daily driving you won't buy a C8.

 

[Baldilocks]

no stick - specificallyt the DCT shift-strategy kept bogging the motor down to 1500 RPM. It was less obnoxious about it in SPort/Track mode but still pointless and annoying. A shift/clutch-by-wire stick would go SO FAR to fix this!

The paddles were incredibly cheap feeling and had massive travel. They should be short-throw micro-contact switches.

cabin was obnoxiously "driver-focused" and in so doing the view to the auxiliary screen was shrouded by not only my hands but also the steering wheel. When you have to move your head off-axis to see the left 3rd of the screen there is something wrong with design.

steering wheel too small. the arms/shoulders expect a certain 'splay' angle and it was too narrow. But not horribly so. The grip surface contour was pretty good though.

seat is very low, lower than my Camaro. I realize it goes with the territory...

The dash surface was incredibly deep and front glass obscenely 'out there'. Pull it back 6 inches, give it a more vertical angle and pull the eye-brow back 2" an higher by 2" and it would have been vastly better. Classic case of someone losing the plot in the name of a drawing that looked "cool" on paper. Had to crane my head to see the traffic light. Not as bad as in the Camaro FWIW. Does GM not employ people over the height of 5 ft 6?

rear view cluttered with all kinds of reflections and glare from that engine cover etc. Should have just made it a camera shot from an un-obstructed vantage point.

Did some S-bends at a decent clip. Tracks true enough but doesn't give the feeling it's actually going to finish the arc. I don't like cars you have to trust blindly. It should give you feedback that gives confidence that it IS up to the task.

My old high school buddy has a 1LT 2021 C8 Stingray. Every time I drive it I want one more and more. (shrug). I think everyone is different when it comes to what they perceive and what they like. For instance, the paddle shifters are aluminum and much better than anything the A10 Mustang has (or Camaro for that matter).

I'm 6'2" and have plenty of headroom/visability, etc. Since his is a convertible, it has the rear-view mirror camera which works quite well.

The biggest thing that impresses me is the build quality and the material on the interior. Makes my Mustang feel like a 90s interior by comparison.

Still waiting to see how the interior of the S650 turns out...

 

[shogun32]

The biggest thing that impresses me is the build quality and the material on the interior. Makes my Mustang feel like a 90s interior by comparison.

try a Blackwing. Interior fit+finish is right on. The stick shift has the proper amount of notchiness to it too. Unlike the Camaro that preceded it.

 

[shogun32]

And the C8 has real metal paddles compared to Mustangs or Camaros cheap plastic ones.

sure, but I'm not comparing C8 against those, rather Audi, BMW and even Ferrari and McLaren. The issue isn't that they are now AL instead of plastic, it's the tacky feel to them.

Honestly the C8 DCT is the best programmed automatic I have driven, it reacts instantly to the throttle, so a kickdown always results in fast low gears with punch.

I'll give you that. But my brain knew that it wanted that gear a second ago and I would have done the shift before I entered the curve and not while in it. Sure that's what paddles are for, but if I have to resort to paddles constantly, give me the damn stick!

I don't know why Ford/GM don't implement the high-gear lockout feature the F-150's A10 has. It's quite useful and would be a huge benefit in the Mustang/Camaro.

 

[OppoLock]

I don't get those points. Of course the dct in tour mode shifts to the highest gear possible for fuel economy. You can overwrite it anytime, go to a sportier mode that holds higher rpms or just go into the manual mode for complete freedom. Honestly the C8 DCT is the best programmed automatic I have driven, it reacts instantly to the throttle, so a kickdown always results in fast low gears with punch.

Compared to Fords 10 speed in the Mustang, even if you kick down in sportier modes it always shifts down in 2-3 steps and what feels like a whole second before you have the punch you wanted. And with 10 gears it's just horrible to shift manually, you're constantly clicking. Even the GT500s 7-speed has the problem that you wait for the computer to get what you want to do with a kickdown.

And the C8 has real metal paddles compared to Mustangs or Camaros cheap plastic ones.

But comparing Mustang and C8 is overall pretty useless, totally different cars with totally different target audiences. If you are looking for a pure sportscar you won't buy a Mustang, if you want a Grand Tourer for daily driving you won't buy a C8.

Agreed on all points.

On the topic of paddles, an ideal paddle shift experience would involve the use of some kind of cool-to-the-touch alloy, have a positive actuation with lengthy travel (eg C8, any PDK, even the Raptor and GT500, older M cars, etc), and be as close to instantaneously reacting to input as possible.

The plastic buttons in the A10 are like anything you’d find in a non-halo VAG product, unsatisfying and inexpensive feeling, both in their tactility and the nature of their actuation.

 

[Twin Turbo]

I'm sure I read somewhere that Dark Horse gets the aluminum paddles from the GT500. I hope they are an easy retro-fit for 10-speed equipped S650s.

 

[Dub347sbf]

I'm sure I read somewhere that Dark Horse gets the aluminum paddles from the GT500. I hope they are an easy retro-fit for 10-speed equipped S650s.

I read it too. Possibly the same blue color as the manual shift knob or something like that was said.