Opinions or knowledge of PPF and Ceramic Coatings

[Vapor Blue GT]

Everything he told me I should pick up came out to under $275.

I just found a thread that Xpel representative replied to in a forum and said you can apply ppf over ceramic as long as the installer knows how to do it with a ceramic coated paint. Ideally you want the film first and ceramic second.

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[roadpilot]

That’s interesting. Ours recommended the exact opposite. I wanted ceramic first and was told it may interfere with the PPF holding up and I’d be wasting money on the coating as it would be covered by the PPF. Obviously there’s different opinions on this process from the professionals.

If the PPF is over the top, it can be easily replaced if damaged. Not so when it's underneath the ceramic coat.

 

[Vapor Blue GT]

If the PPF is over the top, it can be easily replaced if damaged. Not so when it's underneath the ceramic coat.

Sure can. You pull the ppf off and replace it then recoat it. The ceramic is bonded to the film just like paint and is only 15 microns give or take a few.

 

[roadpilot]

Sure can. You pull the ppf off and replace it then recoat it. The ceramic is bonded to the film just like paint and is only 15 microns give or take a few.

Seems cheezy. Then you'll see lines if it's not exactly the same size. And why would I want four (or more) spots on my car missing ceramic coat.

To each thier own.

 

[Vapor Blue GT]

Seems cheezy. Then you'll see lines if it's not exactly the same size. And why would I want four (or more) spots on my car missing ceramic coat.

To each thier own.

If you replace the damaged piece there should be no lines unless you already have lines there. I don’t think you understand how it is applied. If you have a damage spot say on the hood, they should pull the whole piece off the hood and replace it. Then you just ceramic after it cures.

Putting ceramic on first then PPF over it seems backwards after it was explained to me. The ceramic is doing nothing under the ppf and if not applied correctly could cause issues. You want the ceramic as the sacrificial layer to help add protection to the ppf, not the other way around. I always thought it was the other way around until I went and had it applied. But both options work according to Xpel

 

[roadpilot]

If you replace the damaged piece there should be no lines unless you already have lines there. I don’t think you understand how it is applied. If you have a damage spot say on the hood, they should pull the whole piece off the hood and replace it. Then you just ceramic after it cures.

Perhaps you missed where I said I'm putting small sections behind the wheels. I'm not PPFing the entire car. Those would have to be cut the *exact* same shape as the originals or you'll see the lines where the ceramic met the old shape. No thanks.

The ceramic is doing nothing under the ppf

Huh? It's protecting the paint, no different than the rest of the car. The PPF over the top is extra insurance against rock chips.

and if not applied correctly could cause issues.

If it's not applied correctly, you fix it before you put the PPF on it. Common sense.

PPF over ceramic is easier to replace vs PPF under ceramic.

We'll have to agree to disagree. Good luck with your PPF under your ceramic.

 

[RLE55]

PPF under Ceramic???? Obviously, I'm not understanding the principles of Ceramic Coating. Everything I've read, tells me Ceramic Coating on a vehicle, boat or aircraft, is to protect the Clearcoat & paint.

From the Ceramic Coating Company, I used: System X becomes the new functional surface of your vehicle’s paintwork. By creating an inseparable bond on a molecular level with your paintwork you get a hard glossy shell that cannot be washed off like a wax or a sealant.

By putting on PPF and then adding the Ceramic Coating, isn't this preventing the Ceramic Coating from doing its job? I get the argument that it can be done, but by doing so, are you getting the best results from the Ceramic Coating if you have something between it and the clearcoat/paint?

 

[Vapor Blue GT]

Perhaps you missed where I said I'm putting small sections behind the wheels. I'm not PPFing the entire car. Those would have to be cut the *exact* same shape as the originals or you'll see the lines where the ceramic met the old shape. No thanks.

Huh? It's protecting the paint, no different than the rest of the car. The PPF over the top is extra insurance against rock chips.

If it's not applied correctly, you fix it before you put the PPF on it. Common sense.

PPF over ceramic is easier to replace vs PPF under ceramic.

We'll have to agree to disagree. Good luck with your PPF under your ceramic.

Yep, I missed that part. I thought you were ppf the entire car. Definitely ceramic the entire car first then do the ppf. Hope it turns out great. This is my first car with ppf and I couldn’t be more pleased. Already have a few nics in it from rocks but the paint is still in great shape.

 

[Vapor Blue GT]

PPF under Ceramic???? Obviously, I'm not understanding the principles of Ceramic Coating. Everything I've read, tells me Ceramic Coating on a vehicle, boat or aircraft, is to protect the Clearcoat & paint.

From the Ceramic Coating Company, I used: System X becomes the new functional surface of your vehicle’s paintwork. By creating an inseparable bond on a molecular level with your paintwork you get a hard glossy shell that cannot be washed off like a wax or a sealant.

By putting on PPF and then adding the Ceramic Coating, isn't this preventing the Ceramic Coating from doing its job? I get the argument that it can be done, but by doing so, are you getting the best results from the Ceramic Coating if you have something between it and the clearcoat/paint?

The ppf is protecting the paint. If you are doing the entire car like I did, you don’t really need to ceramic coat the car. People ceramic coat over the ppf for added protection to the ppf and for the added benefits of the ceramic coating as the top(sacrificial) layer.

 

[DRKKNITE]

My understanding is that Xpel and Kavaca and I am sure other PPF films already have a ceramic coating in them. Adding a ceramic coating over the PPF allows it to shine and expel water and protect further. The part I am not sure of is does the PPF need to cure before adding more ceramic. The shop I used says no, because the PPF has ceramic. another coat can be applied before curing.

I am the original poster and the car had ceramic. It was supposed to be removed and PPF added and ceramic done over. One shop said the ceramic was not revoved properly and that is why it did not cure properly. I have no idea what is true.

 

[Vapor Blue GT]

My understanding is that Xpel and Kavaca and I am sure other PPF films already have a ceramic coating in them. Adding a ceramic coating over the PPF allows it to shine and expel water and protect further. The part I am not sure of is does the PPF need to cure before adding more ceramic. The shop I used says no, because the PPF has ceramic. another coat can be applied before curing.

I am the original poster and the car had ceramic. It was supposed to be removed and PPF added and ceramic done over. One shop said the ceramic was not revoved properly and that is why it did not cure properly. I have no idea what is true.

I waited for the ppf to cure just to be safe and also in case there were any issues with the ppf. Also, you supposedly don’t need to remove the ceramic coating from the car to apply ppf. It sounds like there maybe a different way to apply the ppf according to a forum I found while searching this very question. Someone from Xpel replied in the thread.
Good luck and hopefully they get it done correctly.

 

[roadpilot]

My understanding is that Xpel and Kavaca and I am sure other PPF films already have a ceramic coating in them. Adding a ceramic coating over the PPF allows it to shine and expel water and protect further. The part I am not sure of is does the PPF need to cure before adding more ceramic. The shop I used says no, because the PPF has ceramic. another coat can be applied before curing.

I am the original poster and the car had ceramic. It was supposed to be removed and PPF added and ceramic done over. One shop said the ceramic was not revoved properly and that is why it did not cure properly. I have no idea what is true.

After re-reading your original post and others, I've come to the conclusion that I'd NEVER let your detail guy come within 100 yards of my Mustang.

 

[DRKKNITE]

So I had the PPF and ceramic redone and picked up yesterday. I had them just do the hood and correct a couple of other spots as best he could. So as mentioned above by some of us, his method was to remove the PPF, and re-apply it and then put ceramic over the PPF. He said the ceramics real function is for shine and water beading for easier washes. The ceramic will not really do anything if under the PPF. Again just another shops method, I personally have no idea.

That being said, I am still not sure I am happy. It is better but I'm sold to be patient and let the PPF cure. Some sun time should help. Still a haze going on under the PPF in parts and one bad bubble. Bring it back in 10 days for an inspection.

The weird thing is the first shop did it in pieces saying that the decals will look better and not show lines (which it did anyways) This one did it as one piece for the entire hood.

Either way I am not going to stress too much. The original shop refunded me $1500.00 and this shop only charged me $1100.00. I still haven't even broken in the car. LOL. Still looking forward to shifting at 7000!!!!!!!!!!

 

[roadpilot]

He said the ceramics real function is for shine and water beading for easier washes.

Ceramic coating does far more than make your car shiny and make water bead. It makes paint and clearcoat contamination and staining more difficult, reduces swirls, marks, and scratches, makes a more durable surface, prevents oxidation, and keeps the sun's UV rays and heat from damaging the paint.

It's as sacrificial layer that gives itself up to protect your paint and clear coat. The molecular bond between the ceramic and the paint means your paint remains untouched by outside elements, provided that you don't do stupid things like take it through a car wash.

Yes, you can still scratch your ceramic coated vehicle. You'll still get water spots and you'll still need to wash it. But there are far more benefits to ceramic coating than just making your car shiny and making water bead up.

Like I said, that guy wouldn't be allowed to be within 100 yards of my DH.

Hope it all works out for you.

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