New S650 Mustang render from Road & Track

[ay1820]

you completely missed the point.
The Mustang is not currently a liability. But it’s being treated as if that’s inevitable. It’s not.

A product is like a garden. You get out of it what you put into it. Give it just enough to survive and that’s what it will do. But cultivate it and tend it like a precious thing snd it will thrive.

it’s being treated like a hot potato right now. Hopefully some actual modern car guys get traction in the boardroom again. Whether that means electric, etc., that’s fine. That part IS inevitable. But leave Fox behind. It’s done. Been done for a while. Sure the original car was not a new platform, but the Fox was. It’s time to do thst all over again. And it would have been right to do so by now.

some of you guys who call yourselves old timers might be fine with it but some of us who have a way to go would like more.

Maybe I am missing your point, but you are also missing mine. Ford will only invest if they can see a clear way to make a profit. There is no way to make a profit developing a new ICE platform for a very, very narrow market segment. You would need 10 times the current Mustang sales volumes to make that worthwhile.

The Mustang brand may live on as a marketing tool for the Ford portfolio, but do not expect a unique platform to be developed solely for that one brand unless that platform can have mass appeal across a very broad market segment (then it won't be the performance oriented car you are asking for). In short, you are never going to get a Ford GT style program at Mustang level pricing.

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[Arthonon]

Maybe I am missing your point, but you are also missing mine. Ford will only invest if they can see a clear way to make a profit. There is no way to make a profit developing a new ICE platform for a very, very narrow market segment. You would need 10 times the current Mustang sales volumes to make that worthwhile.

The Mustang brand may live on as a marketing tool for the Ford portfolio, but do not expect a unique platform to be developed solely for that one brand unless that platform can have mass appeal across a very broad market segment (then it won't be the performance oriented car you are asking for). In short, you are never going to get a Ford GT style program at Mustang level pricing.

Exactly. Looking at the sales numbers over at 6G, Mustangs are at or below 3% of Ford's vehicle sales. Even if Ford made it a clean-slate design with great performance, the chances are that it would never exceed 5% of sales, and that is going to limit how much it's worth spending on development.

 

[Kevindust]

it’s being treated like a hot potato right now. Hopefully some actual modern car guys get traction in the boardroom again. Whether that means electric, etc., that’s fine. That part IS inevitable. But leave Fox behind. It’s done. Been done for a while. Sure the original car was not a new platform, but the Fox was. It’s time to do thst all over again. And it would have been right to do so by now.

I'm not sure why you are referencing the Fox platform. To be clear, it wasn't a new platform designed solely for the Mustang, it was shared with many mid-size applications and the Mustang wasn't the first Fox. Furthermore, the Fox was left behind in 2004.

 

[ay1820]

I'm not sure why you are referencing the Fox platform. To be clear, it wasn't a new platform designed solely for the Mustang, it was shared with many mid-size applications and the Mustang wasn't the first Fox. Furthermore, the Fox was left behind in 2004.

Was wondering myself ... but having owned 3 fox body Mustangs, I do look back at those days with some fond memories Not the best looking or the best performing Mustangs ever, but they did have a certain "character"!

My old '83 GT brought me a lot of smiles.

 

[Hack]

I fear the days for a vehicle like this are numbered. Don't blame Ford, the world just keeps changing.

The world hasn't changed much, but the rules that people make are changing for sure.

Not directed at you, but some people in this thread are so negative! You act like the current Mustang is horrible and it has to get a lot better to be competitive. From what I see the Mustang wins a lot of comparisons. The S550 (some years/models at least) was a really beautiful generation. Definitely more upscale and expensive in some cases than I would prefer, but a really good car.

Just comparing Mustang to Camaro you can see what a really great (according to some) chassis is worth. Virtually nothing. The Alpha chassis didn't make Camaros noticeably quicker around a track than Mustangs. It definitely didn't make the Camaro sell in higher quantities or make it a great car to drive.

I'd like to see a better engine in the next Mustang generation, but we've never really seen Ford go all out on the everyday Mustang. They reserve that for the special cars like the Boss or GT350/500. And those cars have been really special.

Here's hoping we will see another excellent halo coming up.

 

[9secondko]

Maybe I am missing your point, but you are also missing mine. Ford will only invest if they can see a clear way to make a profit. There is no way to make a profit developing a new ICE platform for a very, very narrow market segment. You would need 10 times the current Mustang sales volumes to make that worthwhile.

The Mustang brand may live on as a marketing tool for the Ford portfolio, but do not expect a unique platform to be developed solely for that one brand unless that platform can have mass appeal across a very broad market segment (then it won't be the performance oriented car you are asking for). In short, you are never going to get a Ford GT style program at Mustang level pricing.

that point is the point of any business. My point was that something gets either a) relegated to also ran status or b) gets cancelled if it does not succeed - such as was nearly the case in 2004.

maiming low guarantees you never land high. You get out of a business or product what you put into it. It’s clear that Ford is not investing in the Mustang - it’s “keep it alive” mode rather than “make it thrive.”

we don’t have to agree. That’s ok if you’re ok with an s550 continuation. I’m simply voicing that I’m not. I may be a bit passionate about the subject for reasons that I’ll hold to myself, but I’m really tired of waiting for Ford to take the best product they have and so something really special. I’m also sick of the broken promises. “All new platform,” “poster car,” “the answer to the s550 shortcomings” etc.

At this point I realize I’ve been a downer on the upcoming car. I hope it does very well in sales and I hope that ford allows it to be a leading performance car in a new era that will see the Camaro gone, the dodge cars going in s bold new direction, and pedestrian looking teslas that whoop The cars we have loved.

I also realize that some of the commenters hoping to dunk on what I have said have historically been ok with the true mustang being pushed aside a bit in favor of the electric suv with a pony badge as some back and forth a few years ago went.

when the mustang goes electric, that’s fine - do long as it keeps the performance, the soul, great aesthetics, and fun factor.

as I lifelong Mustang fan, I’m tired of the Camaro out handling it most generations, outperforming it most generations, and then hanging out to dry when the Camaro takes a break.

it appears that there are enough voices here that are quite happy with ford doing the bare minimum - enough so that I’ll get drowned out. So I’ll pull back a bit.

but I have to say that the situation is not good And I dont want to be an old man who can’t enjoy it before the mustang is actually a hot new car for a new era.

that said, I hope to see some slightly surprising upsides with the new car - as the interior is enough of s change as to stir enthusiasm for that part of the car.

 

[ay1820]

The world hasn't changed much, but the rules that people make are changing for sure.

Not directed at you, but some people in this thread are so negative! You act like the current Mustang is horrible and it has to get a lot better to be competitive. From what I see the Mustang wins a lot of comparisons. The S550 (some years/models at least) was a really beautiful generation. Definitely more upscale and expensive in some cases than I would prefer, but a really good car.

Just comparing Mustang to Camaro you can see what a really great (according to some) chassis is worth. Virtually nothing. The Alpha chassis didn't make Camaros noticeably quicker around a track than Mustangs. It definitely didn't make the Camaro sell in higher quantities or make it a great car to drive.

I'd like to see a better engine in the next Mustang generation, but we've never really seen Ford go all out on the everyday Mustang. They reserve that for the special cars like the Boss or GT350/500. And those cars have been really special.

Here's hoping we will see another excellent halo coming up.

I think the current Mustang is one of the best ever in terms of an overall balance of style, comfort, and performance at a relatively reasonable price. I still think the '69 fastback is the best looking Mustang ever, but the S550 is overall a better car.

 

[ay1820]

that point is the point of any business. My point was that something gets either a) relegated to also ran status or b) gets cancelled if it does not succeed.

maiming low guarantees you never land high. You get out of a business or product what you put into it. It’s clear that Ford is not investing in the Mustang - it’s “keep it alive” mode rather than “make it thrive.”

we don’t have to agree. That’s ok if you’re ok with an s550 continuation. I’m simply voicing that I’m not. I may be a bit passionate about the subject for reasons that I’ll hold to myself, but I’m really tired of waiting for Ford to take the best product they have and so something really special. I’m also sick of the broken promises. “All new platform,” “poster car,” “the answer to the s550 shortcomings” etc.

At this point I realize I’ve been a downer on the upcoming car. I hope it does very well in sales and I hope that ford allows it to be a leading performance car in a new era that will see the Camaro gone, the dodge cars going in s bold new direction, and pedestrian looking teslas that whoop The cars we have loved.

I also realize that some of the commenters hoping to dunk on what I have said have historically been ok with the true mustang being pushed aside a bit in favor of the electric suv with a pony badge as some back and forth a few years ago went.

when the mustang goes electric, that’s fine - do long as it keeps the performance, the soul, great aesthetics, and fun factor.

as I lifelong Mustang fan, I’m tired of the Camaro out handling it most generations, outperforming it most generations, and then hanging out to dry when the Camaro takes a break.

it appears that there are enough voices here that are quite happy with ford doing the bare minimum - enough so that I’ll get drowned out. So I’ll pull back a bit.

but I have to say that the situation really sucks. It’s bad. And I dont want to be an old man who can’t enjoy it before the mustang is actually a hot new car for a new era.

that said, I hope to see some slightly surprising upsides with the new car - as the interior is enough of s change as to stir enthusiasm for that part of the car.

I honestly don't intend this sarcastically, but if you think the Camaro is a better car, why not just buy a Camaro?

My current S550 is the 5th Mustang I have owned. Every one of them, including my current car has been imperfect in some way, but that is part of the Mustang experience and it is partially why I love Mustangs so much.

Besides, a GT500 will offer you more performance right out of the box than any but the absolute best drivers can handle anyway. Not sure how much more you could want.

 

[Arthonon]

that point is the point of any business. My point was that something gets either a) relegated to also ran status or b) gets cancelled if it does not succeed - such as was nearly the case in 2004.

maiming low guarantees you never land high. You get out of a business or product what you put into it. It’s clear that Ford is not investing in the Mustang - it’s “keep it alive” mode rather than “make it thrive.”

we don’t have to agree. That’s ok if you’re ok with an s550 continuation. I’m simply voicing that I’m not. I may be a bit passionate about the subject for reasons that I’ll hold to myself, but I’m really tired of waiting for Ford to take the best product they have and so something really special. I’m also sick of the broken promises. “All new platform,” “poster car,” “the answer to the s550 shortcomings” etc.

At this point I realize I’ve been a downer on the upcoming car. I hope it does very well in sales and I hope that ford allows it to be a leading performance car in a new era that will see the Camaro gone, the dodge cars going in s bold new direction, and pedestrian looking teslas that whoop The cars we have loved.

I also realize that some of the commenters hoping to dunk on what I have said have historically been ok with the true mustang being pushed aside a bit in favor of the electric suv with a pony badge as some back and forth a few years ago went.

when the mustang goes electric, that’s fine - do long as it keeps the performance, the soul, great aesthetics, and fun factor.

as I lifelong Mustang fan, I’m tired of the Camaro out handling it most generations, outperforming it most generations, and then hanging out to dry when the Camaro takes a break.

it appears that there are enough voices here that are quite happy with ford doing the bare minimum - enough so that I’ll get drowned out. So I’ll pull back a bit.

but I have to say that the situation is not good And I dont want to be an old man who can’t enjoy it before the mustang is actually a hot new car for a new era.

that said, I hope to see some slightly surprising upsides with the new car - as the interior is enough of s change as to stir enthusiasm for that part of the car.

To be clear, my posts were not voicing my wishes, or even what I would be happy with, but just stating reality. To expect Ford to do a lot with the Mustang at this point is just not realistic. As as been said, the original Mustang was a parts bin car, and it always has been. To develop a chassis unique to it would actually be a break from its past, and without any other vehicle to share it with, it's just not going to happen.

 

[IPOGT]

That's my Twister Orange S550 with aftermarket headlights and bumber from Alibaba!!

T.O. Is a Glorious color!

 

[9secondko]

To be clear, my posts were not voicing my wishes, or even what I would be happy with, but just stating reality. To expect Ford to do a lot with the Mustang at this point is just not realistic. As as been said, the original Mustang was a parts bin car, and it always has been. To develop a chassis unique to it would actually be a break from its past, and without any other vehicle to share it with, it's just not going to happen.

Reality is that Ford is doing the bare minimum and trying to pass it off as a new generation. It's not unrealistic for Ford to actually invest in their halo car even if it doesn't sell as much as an F-150. It's about enthusiasm for the brand. Everyone knows how the halo effect works. But you let your hottest ticket get old and crusty - even worse, release a repainted old and crusty thing and call it. all new, you are hurting your brand.

Like I said before, I sincerely hope that some real car guys (and no, that term does not mean drunken, overweight, grease monkeys drinking gasoline for breakfast) with real engineering enthusiasm to take something good and make it truly excellent have gotten into the mix to reengineer the performance potential of this car - weight, power, gearing, suspension, stiffness, and aero. I'd add geometry to the list, but that would take an actual new platform...

The new interior seems to be a definite plus. The platform itself is old. The exterior styling - we will see.. I think Ford leaked a couple of things to gauge public reaction to internal candidates - not looking great so far, but there is (a little) time. If the new car does not sell well, it's not because the Mustang's time is over - it's because its handlers did not prepare it properly for a new era.

 

[shogun32]

The Mach-E IS the Halo car. Marketing has been clear on that. S550/650 are dead-men walking and the sooner they can jettison the platform and those damn ICE people the better. I'm sure that's how they think. And anyway they have a ready-made excuse for 2030: Uncle Sam made me. So solly.

 

[9secondko]

The Mach-E IS the Halo car. Marketing has been clear on that. S550/650 are dead-men walking and the sooner they can jettison the platform and those damn ICE people the better. I'm sure that's how they think. And anyway they have a ready-made excuse for 2030: Uncle Sam made me. So solly.

It may be in the dreams of those pushing it, but not in the hearts of customers. to your average people, American and foreign, it's just another electric SUV. Try telling the german Mustang fans that the Mach E is a Mustang and they nearly cry. Ford clearly has an agenda. But it's not one that people are excited about. When it shows up in sales - again - hopefully the company figures it out before they have to use an underdeveloped and neglected Mustang (the real one, not the grocery getter). as a scapegoat.

 

[DeluxeStang]

The Mach-E IS the Halo car. Marketing has been clear on that. S550/650 are dead-men walking and the sooner they can jettison the platform and those damn ICE people the better. I'm sure that's how they think. And anyway they have a ready-made excuse for 2030: Uncle Sam made me. So solly.

I disagree, I don't think ford is taking a half-assed, we couldn't care less approach with the s650. I think they're saying we have some limitations, we can't afford to create a bespoke all-nee platform for a single generation of sports cars with relatively low sales volume. But they're going to make the best car with what they have. The s550 was the best performing, and one of the best looking mustangs ever. If the s650 is just that, but taken to the next level in virtually every aspect, then I'm ok with that. Save the super radical styling and platform changes for the all electric mustang in a decade or so, I'm ok with that.

 

[BoostRabbitGT]

Save the super radical styling and platform changes for the all electric mustang in a decade or so, I'm ok with that.

Now I'm wondering if the Mustang after S650 will be exclusively electric or if they'll still offer an ICE option.

Also, wasn't 2035 the cutoff date for selling ICE vehicles or did they bump it up to 2030 while I wasn't looking?

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