First Mod was free - Drilled the Grille and Carbon Trap removal

[DemonWorks]

My first mod is completed, of course I had to remove the carbon traps but I also took a dremel to the Grille and opened it up a bit for better airflow. I have only driven the car once, to work, but I must say I am very happy with this little adjustment. The throttle response was so dead before, but it's improved. It's not perfect, but it's improved and noticeable!

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[RLE55]

From a different forum on this subject:

PSA: not an aerodynamicist, but I am an engineer.

It may seem a bit counterintuitive, but aerodynamically it is possible that you would want these vents closed if there's no cooler/cooling needs.

For ground effects to function, one thing that is required is to have an air velocity differential between under the car and over the car. Ideally, the air underneath the car travels from bumper to bumper quicker than over the car. The larger the differential, the more ground effects are experienced (but I believe there is a limit to this, however I don't remember what it is). But if the air hits the wheels, this is restricted / prevented. Basically, you're treating air flowing over a car like you would the air going over an upside down aeroplane wing.

The above is a simplified application of Bernoulli's Principle. I would be happy if someone that actually knew what they are talking about would come and correct me! There is more than one way to skin a cat, and there are many reasons why you can study a PhD in Aerodynamics.

 

[DemonWorks]

From a different forum on this subject:

PSA: not an aerodynamicist, but I am an engineer.

It may seem a bit counterintuitive, but aerodynamically it is possible that you would want these vents closed if there's no cooler/cooling needs.

For ground effects to function, one thing that is required is to have an air velocity differential between under the car and over the car. Ideally, the air underneath the car travels from bumper to bumper quicker than over the car. The larger the differential, the more ground effects are experienced (but I believe there is a limit to this, however I don't remember what it is). But if the air hits the wheels, this is restricted / prevented. Basically, you're treating air flowing over a car like you would the air going over an upside down aeroplane wing.

The above is a simplified application of Bernoulli's Principle. I would be happy if someone that actually knew what they are talking about would come and correct me! There is more than one way to skin a cat, and there are many reasons why you can study a PhD in Aerodynamics.

They aren't for the cooler, for the intake much like the Dark Horse is wide open right there.

 

[MAT1955]

@DemonWorks ..... there is a video on youtube that is a number of months old. I think the guy calls himself "junk yard garage" in the video as does exactly as you say and I think he likes the sound better but finds no actual quantifiable difference in acceleration but that is NOT my point. A local Mustang enthusiast did exactly this and when driving on a rainy day at about 60 mph found his Mustang mis firing. Long story short, he "guessed" by dremeling out the narrow "slats" in the grille and turning them into open rectangles he had allowed too great a volume of air with RAIN to enter his air boxes via the grille through the snorkels and thus into his air filters and wetted them causing engine mis fires. He was going to purchase a new grille to fix his adventure when a friend who works for a firm that does air flow testing suggested they install a downward facing wing inside his snorkel so that the air restriction would be minimized but the incoming rain would strike it and run down its face. They think the rain water will escape from the snorkel body as it is not sealed. If they found the rain water pool in the snorkel body they would drill a small hole to let it escape. I haven't heard anything more so I guess they this has corrected the issue. Word is he still feels he is somewhat ahead. I was told if he could go back he would not have drilled the grille again but he would still remove the internal diffusers.

After seeing the video months ago I also thought it looked like a fun mod so I discussed the issue my friend's son, a Ford tech. He said don't touch the grille or you'll kiss your 5 year engine warranty good bye (some guys care some don't) He said if you remove the diffusers keep them because if you remove them in a manner that you can re-install them instead of just ripping them out. You can put them back if you have an engine warranty claim. I have seen videos doing it both ways. Then he gave me some, what I would consider good advice - "Any Mustang owner who doesn't think Ford Corporate doesn't monitor Mustang forums and Mustang videos is nuts, as techs we do too and always discuss them over coffees in the shop. Sometimes we go wow great mod and sometimes we go what an idiot - regardless we all know these mods and if a big warranty issue is at stake we have to report the mod and likely you'll get denied. None of these "backyard" or speed shop mods catch us by surprise, we love Mustangs and we signed-up and get paid to work on Mustangs." Just a couple of thoughts FWIW.

 

[roket]

He said don't touch the grille or you'll kiss your 5 year engine warranty good bye (some guys care some don't) He said if you remove the diffusers keep them because if you remove them in a manner that you can re-install them instead of just ripping them out. You can put them back if you have an engine warranty claim

as someone who works in the service department of a Ford dealer, this does not make sense. the 5 year/60k mile powertrain warranty applies only to the powertrain itself. drilling out the grill will not on it's own void the powertrain warranty, but will void the 3 year/36k mile bumper to bumper warranty, but only for the grill, and only if the fact it was drilled out caused the issue. the fact that to him, modifying the grill would void the powertrain warranty, is highly concerning and comes across as one of those techs who find every single reason they can possibly find to say "no warranty". the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act ensures that factory warranties cannot be void unless the required service is due to something caused by a non-authorized service person

 

[dollybud]

as someone who works in the service department of a Ford dealer, this does not make sense. the 5 year/60k mile powertrain warranty applies only to the powertrain itself. drilling out the grill will not on it's own void the powertrain warranty, but will void the 3 year/36k mile bumper to bumper warranty, but only for the grill, and only if the fact it was drilled out caused the issue. the fact that to him, modifying the grill would void the powertrain warranty, is highly concerning and comes across as one of those techs who find every single reason they can possibly find to say "no warranty". the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act ensures that factory warranties cannot be void unless the required service is due to something caused by a non-authorized service person

Well said and informative.

 

[MAT1955]

@roket.....appreciate your comments and respect your opinion. Your comment is the key "drilling out the grille will not on its own void a powertrain warranty". I absolutely agree. I may not have expressed myself well. My point was the effect that altering the grill has was altering the engine's induction process..... IF I understood the tech correctly it was not the drilling of the grille that was the issue it was the fact that it allowed water/water mist/water vapor into the engines induction system, causing miss firing and potential engine damage. Would miss firing result in a code being registered?

As to removing the "carbon filter traps" in the induction pathways there was a video posted of a Ford technician discussing the process and he said most specifically if these were noticed as having been removed by a Ford tech as part of an engine warranty claim investigation he believed the engine warranty would be voided. He said his dealership wouldn't touch a warranty claim. He said you had better replace them if going in for engine warranty work. As I said, I was considering these two mods but after viewing videos and posts discussing these two linked mods, there did not seem to be any advantage at all to these mods and only potential downsides. Could you sue for your claim by stating that the modification could not have harmed the engine? I guess so - but all of that potential trouble - for what? I guess all of this is just opinion until someone conducts an empirical test.

 

[Alan Applegate]

There is a YouTube video about the supposed power gains derived from removing an emissions requirement (carbon filters) and/or drilling out the grill air opening. The net result is, within the inaccuracies (fuzz) generated during any dyno pull. That is to say, no two pulls will be the same except for the nominal probability. Yet there is an oh-but about the Dark Horse not have the grill work. Here is a suggestion. Pull up the part numbers of the associated air intake pieces for the GT and compare them to the same pieces for the Dark Horse.

Technically, one could draw a conclusion wherein removing the carbon filter might void the warranty. What the filter is designed to do, is absorb unused fuel vapors after engine shut down. Once restarted the air flow through the filters releases these vapors into the engine where they're burned, rather than release them into ambient. Further, if enough vapor accumulated and something caused them to ignite, it wouldn't take an engineer to figure out what might/could happen.

The same can be said (HP and/or torque figures) about replacing the existing filter assemblies with a so-called Cool Air Intakes (CAI). Yes, you might make a couple of dyno HP, but again those increases are within the fuzz of repeatability.

Just remember what PT Barnum supposedly uttered.

 

[8915GT]

@DemonWorks ..... there is a video on youtube that is a number of months old. I think the guy calls himself "junk yard garage" in the video as does exactly as you say and I think he likes the sound better but finds no actual quantifiable difference in acceleration but that is NOT my point. A local Mustang enthusiast did exactly this and when driving on a rainy day at about 60 mph found his Mustang mis firing. Long story short, he "guessed" by dremeling out the narrow "slats" in the grille and turning them into open rectangles he had allowed too great a volume of air with RAIN to enter his air boxes via the grille through the snorkels and thus into his air filters and wetted them causing engine mis fires. He was going to purchase a new grille to fix his adventure when a friend who works for a firm that does air flow testing suggested they install a downward facing wing inside his snorkel so that the air restriction would be minimized but the incoming rain would strike it and run down its face. They think the rain water will escape from the snorkel body as it is not sealed. If they found the rain water pool in the snorkel body they would drill a small hole to let it escape. I haven't heard anything more so I guess they this has corrected the issue. Word is he still feels he is somewhat ahead. I was told if he could go back he would not have drilled the grille again but he would still remove the internal diffusers.

So are you saying replacing your grill will void warranty?

 

[MAT1955]

@8915GT. ..... no. What I was told by a Ford tech was drilling out the front grille "could" void the engine warranty if doing so changed the induction stream by allowing rainwater during driving to soak the filter elements allowing water, water vapor or water mist into the engine combustion chambers. If you look at the completely new induction system for 2024 you will see that the twin induction runners are connected to what are often referred to as "snorkels" that abut the front grille closer to the road. This was done to allow more and cooler air into the engine BUT this can also allow more dust/dirt, bugs and water into the induction runners. Ford has - he said - designed the grille with some openings and some vents that are strategically placed to meet Ford specifications. Drilling out more areas in the grille could (and at his dealership likely would) void any engine warranty claims.

He did also say removing the "carbon traps" from inside the induction runners would void the warranty, in his opinion. If doing so he said to replace the traps - a common comment on videos showing "how to" remove them - before taking it to the dealer for any engine warranty claim. Where I have my Mustang serviced the techs are already well aware of these two garage-style "mods".

 

[8915GT]

Yeah Ford has changed a few things, when I bought my car the salesman said Ford does not have a bumper to bumper warranty anymore and is limited. Meaning they will review everything before replacing the part. Sounds pretty shady to me and I hope I will never have to deal with it. Mustangs have ben pretty reliable for me. The idea that removing the carbon traps could/will void the warranty is stupid. Luckily they do not take away any performance gains.

 

[agreywolfe]

Let's be honest here. If you're permanantly modding your car, you never intended on using the warranty to begin with.

 

[8915GT]

Let's be honest here. If you're permanantly modding your car, you never intended on using the warranty to begin with.

Yeah I never owned a new car before always bought used, I doubt I am going to do any mods that will potentially void the warranty. My s550 was FBO

 

[MAT1955]

Here's one for us all. Form Canada on last night's news. If I have this all correct - a young university student with some cash bought one of the new Hyundai "rockets" he selected the track package and purchased 7 year 140K extended warranty. He has taken better than OEM recommendations for service. On camera he spoke very well. He showed the professional track (not a Walmart lot doing donuts) where he "tracked" his car which he explained that he was purchasing the car for at the dealership. It developed engine trouble at about 50K. Hyundai wants $10,000.00 to repair the engine. Hyundai had the dealer download his OBD and said it had spent too much time at or near red line so the engine warranty was VOID. Now if that isn't some kind of crazy. Apparently he was told to read the fine print. His reply was - with the salesman we selected the track pack options, what did they think I was going to do? This now has media attention so who knows where it will play out?

From a car insurance agent friend who said to me -remember, MAT - dealerships only get about 75% of the shop menu prices for warranty work. They LOSE money with every warranty claim. How hard do you think they are going to fight for you? Are they ready to go to the mat with the company who will decide what vehicles they get the next model year? Manufacturers sell these high performance cars, yet are ready (it often seems gleefully eager) to deny claims for the slightest reason. Any kind of mod the could be remotely associated with a failure will get blamed. In that case you will have a fight and unless you have a long family relationship with the dealer, like buying and servicing vehicles there and have a service manager who will try to escalate your claim through a customer appreciation account ,you likely have a losing legal fight on your hands. I see this every day. His opinion was that guys who mod, track and service their own cars will have very little chance of a power train warranty claim. If you're doing that, he said, just do it and have fun and if it blows-up fix it yourself. He owns a high performance charger.

 

[roket]

Here's one for us all. Form Canada on last night's news. If I have this all correct - a young university student with some cash bought one of the new Hyundai "rockets" he selected the track package and purchased 7 year 140K extended warranty. He has taken better than OEM recommendations for service. On camera he spoke very well. He showed the professional track (not a Walmart lot doing donuts) where he "tracked" his car which he explained that he was purchasing the car for at the dealership. It developed engine trouble at about 50K. Hyundai wants $10,000.00 to repair the engine. Hyundai had the dealer download his OBD and said it had spent too much time at or near red line so the engine warranty was VOID. Now if that isn't some kind of crazy. Apparently he was told to read the fine print. His reply was - with the salesman we selected the track pack options, what did they think I was going to do? This now has media attention so who knows where it will play out?

From a car insurance agent friend who said to me -remember, MAT - dealerships only get about 75% of the shop menu prices for warranty work. They LOSE money with every warranty claim. How hard do you think they are going to fight for you? Are they ready to go to the mat with the company who will decide what vehicles they get the next model year? Manufacturers sell these high performance cars, yet are ready (it often seems gleefully eager) to deny claims for the slightest reason. Any kind of mod the could be remotely associated with a failure will get blamed. In that case you will have a fight and unless you have a long family relationship with the dealer, like buying and servicing vehicles there and have a service manager who will try to escalate your claim through a customer appreciation account ,you likely have a losing legal fight on your hands. I see this every day. His opinion was that guys who mod, track and service their own cars will have very little chance of a power train warranty claim. If you're doing that, he said, just do it and have fun and if it blows-up fix it yourself. He owns a high performance charger.

the thing about extended warranties is they're not held to the standards of factory warranties. extended warranties can be voided if you look at someone wrong. also, im not terribly surprised Hyundai has something like that, it seems like so many of those import brands have some trickery like that, such as the infamous Nissan GT-R traction control counter and a bunch of german brands that have limited amount of launch control uses

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