Dark Horse vs Shelby

[MaddNomad]

tbh Ford kind of needs to drop the Shelby name, the dude died over a decade ago, he has no involvement with the current generations development. That coupled with the last gen top end being the SHELBY GT500 vs the DODGE SRT hellcat and the CHEVY Camaro ZL1, Fords the only one who had to use an outside company to make their high end. makes it look kind of like Ford doesnt know how to make a performance car, which is anything but true, the only thing Shelby really did for the S550 generation was slap their name on it. Its not like Ford cant make their own brands super popular on their own, after all one of the more talked about cars from the 2000's is the SVT Cobra "Terminator" an entirely Ford name.

You can also argue that the current Shelby American products are more in line with the original ethos without the names.

Agreed. However I wouldn’t mind any other historic nameplates under Ford’s corporate umbrella I.e. Mach 1, any of the Boss names etc

I think the Boss 302/429 should replace the GT350/GT500 respectively. I’m also not against just having the Dark Horse and maybe a Dark Horse R replacing them as well.

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[Japeatr]

My .02:

After taking the car out on the track, i can't imagine better performance (other than in the straights) of adding more power to the wheels. The brakes, suspension and tires didn't leave much to be desired on top of the car's performance. even on a cold day the car was better than the driver in every turn.

The brakes were ABSOLUTELY solid, the suspension was well tuned, and every shift and apex the car did amazing. adding 200 more hp would have only benefitted the Straightline performance and potentially slowed down my cornering ability with traction loss.

 

[sjerven]

For the people who still think the Shelby is better, I’m hearing:
‘Ford put more effort into Shelby’
‘It gives you a feeling’
‘Handling is better’
‘that voodoo engine is special’

How do you know how much effort Ford put into these cars? And, besides the voodoo engine that grenades way too often, I’ve yet to hear an actual part on the car that makes it objectively better.

if the handling is better on the Shelby then why is the DH faster on a track in most tests?

I’ve driven both cars and my ‘feeling’ is not lacking in the Dark Horse. Still not sure how some people can say the DH is below the gt350 in the lineup.

 

[Upacurb]

So much hate on the VooDoo in here- lots of guys running with tons of mileage on their original motors

Just like the Porsche IMS bearings
6.7 Powerstroke Fuel Systems
Z06 cylinder heads
C8 transmissions
Coyote truck motors burning oil

If I go to the problems area on this forum- one could come to the conclusion that ALL 24 Mustangs have issues with electronics and killing batteries - also quite a few threads about cars all of a sudden not starting-

Maybe if we make enough you tube videos- OMG 24 GTs are all having massive electrical issues!! everyone will start believing? lol

But here is the problem - tons of people who are driving all of these cars problem free

And yes Carroll Shelby is dead.....

so is Henry Ford the 2nd - Lee Iacocca - and probably everyone else who had anything to do with the original Mustang .... so is that the new rule....once whoever invented the name dies- lets throw the baby out with the bathwater? just curious how this all works?

If Ford comes up with a new Cobra - if not designed by SVT does that mean its not a real Cobra?

At the end of the day - the VooDoo is definitely a more sensitive/ high maintenance motor - if you beat on them cold they will burn oil and break - its interesting because other vehicles with flat plane cranks such as Hurucans- they limit RPM/other things until the car reaches certain temperatures

I have yet to see someone run a 2020 350 (the newer 350s are different then the older ones) and a Dark Horse on the same track same driver same day with new tires on both cars - so not sure anyone can say one is faster then the other .... I have no idea .... lighter weight/ more power vs. newer suspension tuning- I have no idea which is faster to be honest

 

[Upacurb]

PS its interesting- no one talks about Dark Horses on the GT350 forums...just saying ..let that sink in....

I mean the real enemy is EVs - I propose both Dark Horse and 350s are awesome cars in their own unique ways and shouldn't be compared - because both are a million times better then some rolling microwave electric vehicle.....

 

[IceGamer]

I often read the words ‘it’s not a shelby’. That got me thinking that a lot of people are stuck in the past. It seems like Ford is trying to move away from using Shelby in their branding, perhaps due to licensing fees and marketing reasons.

if you look at the GT500 and GT350, you could argue the engines have more power than the Dark Horse. The voodoo engine has proven to be unreliable and expensive, so it makes sense Ford could not keep selling it. So aside from the more powerful engines, is there one part on any Shelby version Mustang that is better than a Dark Horse? Suspension, wheels, exhaust, interior, anything ? I’d like to know what makes these cars a ‘Shelby’ besides the name and a few extra horsepower.

From my perspective Ford has made the very best NA V8 they could in the Dark Horse using all the best old and new parts available, from Shelby and beyond.

Ask yourself:
is a supercharged Mustang GT 5.0 equal to a Shelby GT500?

No, it's not. Heritage matters and certain names will always matter. Take the name Schumacher for example. Best F1 driver in the world, by far. However, his son has some talent but without his name he probably wouldn't get a chance to compete in the F1...
Besides, the Shelby has a more unique engine, better tuning by Ford/Shelby and a nicer interior - though not by much.

Can the name be replaced? Yes, absolutely. Is it worth from a marketing point of view? I doubt it especially if something is sold globally.

 

[agreywolfe]

Henry Ford II's name is on the Ford brand because the company was founded by his father and named after him.
nothing in the mustang lineup is branded the "Iacocca" so thats a moot argument
Shelbys contribution to the mustang was calling it shit and building the OG GT350 and the GT500s up through the S197 he earned his right to put the Shelby name on all those cars, because he made them.

modern Shelby doesnt do anything for the mustang. the Engine is built and designed by Ford Performance (SVT). The transmission is from Tremec, the suspension is from Magneride, the body and design is from Ford and Ford performance. All Shelby does is slap their name and badge over the bumpers and interior. Hell, Shelby didnt even make the GT350 race car, that was Multimatic and Ford Performance.

and for the "marketing and sales" point i argue that is only going to drive Ford to want and diversify their in house brand names over paying for a badge from Shelby considering every generation Mustang has failed to outsell its previous generation outside of Gen 3 (for obvious reasons).

im not saying we need to completely discount Shelby here, just that we need to see them for what they actually are today, a boutique shop like RTR and Roush. Ford can make a GT500 replacement easily without them, their only value add from factory is a name.

 

[dfanucci]

Good Lord...

I expect the DH crowd to blow smoke up their own asses regarding their purchase, but it's on another level when you are trying to put it up against a Shelby. That Shelby badge comes with a hell of a lot more than just stickers and a badge. History and Legacy count a whole hell of a lot...

Come back in 5 years and see what that 14hp and Dark Horse name did regarding re-sale or worth. No contest folks...

Love your DH dearly, but save the Shelby comparisons...

 

[Upacurb]

A Take the name Schumacher for example. Best F1 driver in the world, by far.

100% there - I dont care how many championships Lewis wins...I dont care if Max breaks 1000 more records- Schumacher is the GOAT

 

[Rated R]

That Shelby badge comes with a hell of a lot more than just stickers and a badge. History and Legacy count a whole hell of a lot...

Come back in 5 years and see what that 14hp and Dark Horse name did regarding re-sale or worth. No contest folks...

Love your DH dearly, but save the Shelby comparisons...

Yeah the Shelby comes with a time bomb under the hood. That engine is known for eating oil and shitting the bed (even though I love it). In five years it will only be worse, those engines are not going to last. How much does that engine cost again, $30K?

The Coyote has stood the test of time in comparison. I don't have either right now, but I'd for certain be far more interested in a DH in five years over a GT350 with a questionable and very expensive engine. A GT350 off warranty doesn't sound like a good position to be in as an owner.

 

[Zig]

100% there - I dont care how many championships Lewis wins...I dont care if Max breaks 1000 more records- Schumacher is the GOAT

Although when you say Schumacher, car isn’t the first thing that comes to mind. Shelby on the other hand …

 

[Revan9]

Hopefully someone runs a GT350 and a DH on the same track on the same tires for a comparison. The DH isn't developed by Ford Performance from what I understand, that in itself puts it in a different category in comparison to the Shelby's and as such I'd imagine didn't get the same "effort" given to them. The Dark Horse is still an awesome car though, and you shouldn't take anything from it when you hear people say it isn't a Shelby.

I don't doubt for a minute that the voodoo is less reliable than the coyote but I do think the issues or overblown. Check the oil vigilantly, change the oil on time, let the car warm up, pray and keep an extended warranty on it. So far this has worked for me, 2016 40k miles.

 

[9secondko]

For the people who still think the Shelby is better, I’m hearing:
‘Ford put more effort into Shelby’
‘It gives you a feeling’
‘Handling is better’
‘that voodoo engine is special’

How do you know how much effort Ford put into these cars? And, besides the voodoo engine that grenades way too often, I’ve yet to hear an actual part on the car that makes it objectively better.

if the handling is better on the Shelby then why is the DH faster on a track in most tests?

I’ve driven both cars and my ‘feeling’ is not lacking in the Dark Horse. Still not sure how some people can say the DH is below the gt350 in the lineup.

how about the voodoo for starters. The heart of the entire car. The effort that went into developing that big of a flat-plane crank v8 was major. It was a record at the time.

compare that to the development that went into a Bullitt/mach 1/dh engine.

Then there is the suspension, with first-ever magnetize in a mustang specially designed front knuckles.

the body is another area. The 350 and 500 look completely separate from all other mustangs with extensive body work.
The dh look mostly like a GT, but with cheap, plastic around the headlights and a different lower grille treatment. Oh. And some stickers.

the dark horse is a great car. But when you consider it’s 2024 and it basically keeps pace (with additional handling pack and r compound tires) with a car nearly a decade older, that kind of ends the argument.

now imagine Ford investing the kind of effort they did with the 2016 Shelby into a 2025 mustang. That ends up a whole lot different/better than what you’re seeing with the dark horse. And that’s why the Shelby is considered the more special car

That doesn’t knock the dark horse. It’s a great car. Solid. Handles well. Decently fast for it’s day. It just isn’t quite up there in terms of the for-the-time engineering that went into the Shelby. the Shelby was ford redlining, developing all new stuff. The dark horse is ford coasting if you will, using what they have. It’s basically what a GT performamce pack should have been by now. But ford found a way to get a few more dollars by marketing it differently.

in the future, whether ford calls them Shelbys, Bosses, Machs, Darks, Cobras, inchworms, or something else, the big dog, truly special cars will have some serious effort put into them.

The Mach 1 already sort of slid into the 350 slot, now the dh took the Mach 1 spot. Next I imagine we will see the gt500/cobra or whatever they call it. I imagine that will be a car that doesn’t have this kind of debate around it. Because the work will be put in to do something new and truly special. Hopefully the give it turbos this time to crank the power and economy beyond what a supercharger can do.

 

[Crew4991]

Good Lord...

I expect the DH crowd to blow smoke up their own asses regarding their purchase, but it's on another level when you are trying to put it up against a Shelby. That Shelby badge comes with a hell of a lot more than just stickers and a badge. History and Legacy count a whole hell of a lot...

Come back in 5 years and see what that 14hp and Dark Horse name did regarding re-sale or worth. No contest folks...

Love your DH dearly, but save the Shelby comparisons...

Spot on. Nothing wrong with the coyote engine in the Dark Horse as it is very impressive really; but it shouldn't be compared to the Shelby GT350 though, it should be compared to the other high performance 5.0 coyote trim levels such as the Mach 1 and Bullitt.

The unique engine alone in the GT350 makes the car a legend just like the GT500 Predator engine. This is why the Shelby models will always be more desirable - its the uniqueness.

In terms of money vs performance, I'm sure in 5 years the DH will certainly be a better value once it depreciates a bit. Shelby cars will hold their value better even if they burn oil.
The GT350 is basically the some price point as the DH with some of the early years even lower. I would say the GT350 is a better value right now in comparison to Ford's latest recall waiting to happen the DH.

 

[LCDRChemEng]

Funny thing is, it was Ford who made Shelby. Back when he was a broke dick former oil prospector and chicken farmer, he went to Ford hat in hand asking for some cash and engines to develop a car that would eat the Corvette for lunch. Thus began the "Powered by Ford" Cobra, and the Shelby marque.

Needless to say, both companies profited tremendously from the joint venture. It is said Lee Iacocca turned to Shelby in 1964 and asked if he could sportify the new Mustang, to which ol' Carroll replied "I don't know, it's a secretary's car..."

So now that Shelby does nothing more than put badges and special paint on cars, I would venture future collectors could consider a Ford in the same realm as a Shelby, except there's 3 important factors in determining the value of a collectible:
1. Is it enjoyable and desirable? (DH yes)
2. Is it well preserved? (DH maybe)
3. Is it rare (DH, not really)

As long as the DH remains plentiful, it won't compare against hard to find Shelby variants. And that's where it ends. Remember: Craftsman tools also commanded a premium in the past, but now they're just a badge...

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