Dark Horse vs Shelby

[Upacurb]

Sweet Shelby bro

After '68 Carrol Shelby had nothing to do with anything Ford was doing. He just slapped his name on anything he could make money off of. Pretty good gig that guy had going all those years. People paid hard earned cash for that snake badge. I bought the GT350 because of the mechanical package, not because it had snakes and stripes and the name on it. I would have preferred that it had been a Mach 1 or a Boss 320 etc.

Shelby- the K car of Mustangs!! lol

See Dark Horse guys- got to learn to laugh at yourself too

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[Upacurb]

Something to ponder. How much did the purchaser have to pay for the Shelby name on their Mustang? Whatever that was, would you rather have had that money put into further performance enhancements, higher quality interior, better panel fitment and paint quality, or a lower price?

Interesting question...no idea what the average price per car turned out to be..... $500 - yes give me the name....

If it was 20K - call it the My Little Pony for all I care if it comes with a VooDoo lol

 

[roket]

... How much does that engine cost again, $30K? ...

the long block for a Gen 2 Voodoo is $18,098.67 retail from Ford before any parts department markup with a $3500 core charge and 11.6 hours of labor.
assuming the dealer does not mark up the long block, the old engine is returned, and the customer has to pay at $195/hr, total is about $20k before tax.
if we assume that every single GT350 has had it's engine replaced once under warranty and Ford pays the whole bill less tax, that's about $479,966,640. no wonder they stopped it's production

 

[Rated R]

the long block for a Gen 2 Voodoo is $18,098.67 retail from Ford before any parts department markup with a $3500 core charge and 11.6 hours of labor.
assuming the dealer does not mark up the long block, the old engine is returned, and the customer has to pay at $195/hr, total is about $20k before tax.
if we assume that every single GT350 has had it's engine replaced once under warranty and Ford pays the whole bill less tax, that's about $479,966,640. no wonder they stopped it's production

To that process, I was a Snap-On dealer a long time ago. Right next to the tool box of the majority of techs/mechanics I called on weekly was a five gallon bucket of nuts, bolts and fasteners.

 

[Upacurb]

the long block for a Gen 2 Voodoo is $18,098.67 retail from Ford before any parts department markup with a $3500 core charge and 11.6 hours of labor.
assuming the dealer does not mark up the long block, the old engine is returned, and the customer has to pay at $195/hr, total is about $20k before tax.
if we assume that every single GT350 has had it's engine replaced once under warranty and Ford pays the whole bill less tax, that's about $479,966,640. no wonder they stopped it's production

Now given the unreliability of these cars.....you got to figure we are going to go through at least 2 or 3 motor replacements....I mean its almost like getting an annual oil change for most of us..... I mean hell no wonder the values are so high - this is a billion dollar car easy!!

 

[Rated R]

Now given the unreliability of these cars.....you got to figure we are going to go through at least 2 or 3 motor replacements....I mean its almost like getting an annual oil change for most of us..... I mean hell no wonder the values are so high - this is a billion dollar car easy!!

Agreed. My first engine didn't last 3,500 miles...

 

[RebelMan]

Funny because Dark Horses are selling below sticker and 4 year old Shelbys are still selling over sticker ....yep their time has definitely come and gone.... I mean all of these Heritage Edition cars selling for way over 100K ....

Heh, you need to check your history. There was a time when you couldn't give away a Mustang II either but now they are going for a ransom. Point is you have no point.

I don't know why you think we are Shelby bashing, because we are not. We are just saying that times are a changing. Given the full lineup of Dark Horse derivatives there just doesn't seem to be a place for Shelby's anymore other than in a collectors' museum (which we all know the vast majority are doing). Shelby is Bitcoin on wheels these days.

 

[RebelMan]

Yes ...I can feel your anger...use it and strike me down...turn to the Dark side of the Horse!

You underestimate the power of the Dark Horse. Your feeble skills are no match!

 

[Revan9]

Heh, you need to check your history. There was a time when you couldn't give away a Mustang II either but now they are going for a ransom. Point is you have no point.

I don't know why you think we are Shelby bashing, because we are not. We are just saying that times are a changing. Given the full lineup of Dark Horse derivatives there just doesn't seem to be a place for Shelby's anymore other than in a collectors' museum (which we all know the vast majority are doing). Shelby is Bitcoin on wheels these days.

I understand what you're saying but I don't see it that way. There's certainly room for a GT500 or Cobra in between the GTD and the DH. I don't know what they'll call it but I doubt it'll be a version of the DH. I don't think they'll bring the GT350 back, and I don't think that they should - but the Shelby and Cobra brands are too historically significant to the Mustang to ignore. They'll be back.

 

[RebelMan]

I understand what you're saying but I don't see it that way. There's certainly room for a GT500 or Cobra in between the GTD and the DH. I don't know what they'll call it but I doubt it'll be a version of the DH. I don't think they'll bring the GT350 back, and I don't think that they should - but the Shelby and Cobra brands are too historically significant to the Mustang to ignore. They'll be back.

Again, the Dark Horse has that gap covered in the name of the FP800S. However, while I don't see another GT-500 I can see the Cobra making a return but as a factory branded FP800S.

It's important to note that Cobra has two distinct meanings, AC Cobra and Mustang Cobra, the former a Shelby designation and the later a Ford designation. In the context of this discussion Cobra means Mustang Cobra. In that light, there is a historical distinction between Cobra (aka Mustang Cobra) and Shelby.

As for Shelby, the purists know there is only one true Shelby. Since then, the name has become a diluted also ran replaced by the names Mach, Boss, Cobra and now Dark Horse. There were attempts to breathe life back into the GT-500 name plate in 2007 and the GT-350 in 2015 and I can respect that. However, I don't respect enthusiasts that treat the name mostly as a collectible commodity. But that is what it has become, and I don't think Carroll would have appreciated that either.

Shelby is really nothing more than an aftermarket parts bin in the same vein as Saleen, Roush and now RTR. It may be more collectible than the others but to a performance (driving) enthusiast it's no Cobra or Dark Horse and it is not Ford Performance.

 

[Upacurb]

Again, the Dark Horse has that gap covered in the name of the FP800S. However, while I don't see another GT-500 I can see the Cobra making a return but as a factory branded FP800S.

It's important to note that Cobra has two distinct meanings, AC Cobra and Mustang Cobra, the former a Shelby designation and the later a Ford designation. In the context of this discussion Cobra means Mustang Cobra. In that light, there is a historical distinction between Cobra (aka Mustang Cobra) and Shelby.

As for Shelby, the purists know there is only one true Shelby. Since then, the name has become a diluted also ran replaced by the names Mach, Boss, Cobra and now Dark Horse. There were attempts to breathe life back into the GT-500 name plate in 2007 and the GT-350 in 2015 and I can respect that. However, I don't respect enthusiasts that treat the name mostly as a collectible commodity. But that is what it has become, and I don't think Carroll would have appreciated that either.

Shelby is really nothing more than an aftermarket parts bin in the same vein as Saleen, Roush and now RTR. It may be more collectible than the others but to a performance (driving) enthusiast it's no Cobra or Dark Horse and it is not Ford Performance.

I previously owned a 67 GT500 and yes- definitely once Ford took over.....many of the purists only consider the cars built by Shelby American in the 60s a true Shelby .....

A little video of me treating my GT500 like a real investment lol

Got Time To Burn? We've Got Tires To Burn! (youtube.com)

 

[Revan9]

Again, the Dark Horse has that gap covered in the name of the FP800S. However, while I don't see another GT-500 I can see the Cobra making a return but as a factory branded DH FP800S.

It's important to note that Cobra has two distinct meanings, AC Cobra and Mustang Cobra, the former a Shelby designation and the later a Ford designation. In the context of this discussion Cobra means Mustang Cobra. In that light, there is a historical distinction between Cobra (aka Mustang Cobra) and Shelby.

As for Shelby, the purists know there is only one true Shelby. Since then, the name has become a diluted also ran replaced by the names Mach, Boss, Cobra and now Dark Horse. There were attempts to breathe life back into the GT-500 name plate in 2007 and the GT-350 in 2015 and I can respect that. However, I don't respect enthusiasts that treat the name mostly as a collectible commodity. But that is what it has become, and I don't think Carroll would have appreciated that either.

Shelby is really nothing more than an aftermarket parts bin in the same vein as Saleen, Roush and now RTR. It may be more collectible than the others but to a performance (driving) enthusiast it's no Cobra or Dark Horse and it is not Ford Performance.

I don't think there's a chance that the range topping street Mustang (omitting the GTD for obvious reasons) for the S650 generation is a package for the Mustang GT or DH and not a standalone model. The current FP800S doesn't nearly replace something like the S550 GT500 in the lineup and neither would the hypothetical "DH FP800S" you've created.

I know all about the history of the brands we're talking about and I somewhat agree with the idea that people place too much emphasis on the value of these cars. I don't think there's a reason to believe the DH is the replacement for the Shelby nameplate, it is a track focused Mustang GT. The GT350/500 are a lot more than that, even going back to previous SVT Mustangs. The DH is much more akin to a Bulliitt or Mach 1 and there's nothing wrong with that.

I don't understand what you're trying to say in the last paragraph. Shelby American has no value to what we're talking about. The GT350/GT500 are Ford Performance vehicles.

 

[agreywolfe]

I know all about the history of the brands we're talking about and I somewhat agree with the idea that people place too much emphasis on the value of these cars. I don't think there's a reason to believe the DH is the replacement for the Shelby nameplate, it is a track focused Mustang GT. The GT350/500 are a lot more than that, even going back to previous SVT Mustangs. The DH is much more akin to a Bulliitt or Mach 1 and there's nothing wrong with that

the thing here that makes the DH more than " a bullitt or Mach 1" is just how much Ford is putting behind the Dark Horse name. this is more than just the DH or the DHHP, the Dark Horse R is a new purpose built race car, the Mustang GT4 is a GT4 spec Dark Horse, and the mustang GT3 carries the Dark Horse badge as well. Ford clearly wants the Dark Horse name to mean more than "a Bullit or Mach 1"

I don't understand what you're trying to say in the last paragraph. Shelby American has no value to what we're talking about. The GT350/GT500 are Ford Performance vehicles.

Shelby American owns the copyright to the name "GT350" and "GT500". thats all they add to the car. if you want the REAL Shelby touch you need to pay for their $30K special "Shelby Signature Edition" thats defintely not just a Shelby version of the RTR Spec 2

 

[maybemaybe]

Agreed. My first engine didn't last 3,500 miles...

A guy I know bought a used 2016 GT350 with 6,000 kms and the engine let go after two weeks of owning it. Paid close to $30k (Canadian) to get a new engine installed. Just brutal.

 

[Upacurb]

I think we got lost with the racing stuff

Dark Horse
Different suspension brakes and bumpers and a tuned Coyote

gt350 takes all of that and adds
Carbon composite radiator support
Lower hood line
Fenders .5 inches wider then the Mustang
Really everything a pillar forward is completely unique to the Shelby and can not be bolted into a normal Mustang
Not just a modified Coyote but a unique 5.2 flat plane crank motor
The tires are a specific spec… not standard tire made specifically for the gt350

It is far easier to convert a Mustang into a Dark Horse then a Mustang into a GT350

maybe a fairer statement would be Ford did more to make the GT350 different from the GT then they did for the Mach 1 or Dark Horse

not going to argue better or worse … just more different

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