2024 Mustang GT A/C belt broke

[spedy7]

I have not seen any Mustangs with this problem, but '24 F-250 and F-350 trucks have compressors failing at an alarming rate, and of course no parts available.
I curse the suppliers who provide this rubbish, then I think they are only building items to the specs that Ford gives them, so then I curse the engineers.
My experience over the last 5 years is that no one cares. We have this dash module, the APIM, and I have some vehicles that are on their 3rd on in the 5 years that I've been here. Poorly engineered or poorly built, that plenty of time to correct whatever is wrong, and no one does, or even want to talk about it.

I found out through our FSE that they are very much aware of a supplier QC issue with those compressors and still "investigating" the issue. Funny enough the same compressor or supplier supplies the ones for the '23 Expeditions (and probably other vehicles), which caused the BJB FET to short out on one and keep the clutch on 24/7.

Don't even get me started on APIMs...

Sponsored

 

[SSuperDave]

46 years in dealership service departments, the last five with ford, and I have never seen poor quality stuff like this again, I don't know if it's the designers or the builders but nobody seems to put more than 2 minutes thought into anything. And when you start asking questions or when you ask why there isn't part, all the way up the line, people just shrugged and say sorry back order no shift date and then walk off. Whether it's the engineers or the suppliers, no one is held accountable, Ford gets feedback on this stuff by warranty claim info but they do nothing to hold the suppliers accountable. And the suppliers can't do anything without feedback they just keep churning out the same junk.

 

[Zig]

46 years in dealership service departments, the last five with ford, and I have never seen poor quality stuff like this again, I don't know if it's the designers or the builders but nobody seems to put more than 2 minutes thought into anything. And when you start asking questions or when you ask why there isn't part, all the way up the line, people just shrugged and say sorry back order no shift date and then walk off. Whether it's the engineers or the suppliers, no one is held accountable, Ford gets feedback on this stuff by warranty claim info but they do nothing to hold the suppliers accountable. And the suppliers can't do anything without feedback they just keep churning out the same junk.

When robots make mistakes they are consistent.

 

[SSuperDave]

You're correct. But Fords warranty expense is double what GM and stalantis is you think they would take a look at why. And robotics should make it even easier to track this stuff
I stand by my original assessment that no one cares

 

[MCS]

You're correct. But Fords warranty expense is double what GM and stalantis is you think they would take a look at why. And robotics should make it even easier to track this stuff
I stand by my original assessment that no one cares

Long gone are the days of pushing out a superior product; now it is about pushing out profits for the board and major stakeholders. The customer plays Russian Roulette with the product in that it may be awesome, or it may have flaws but the customer is no longer the focus, nor is the product that is sold.

Lemme break out of tin foil hat for a second cause this is where things get interesting.

If the company is still profitable, despite having expenses like warranty stuff, then those inflated expenses fall within "acceptable operating costs"; As long as they have their 5%-15% year over year then stuff like this is just the cost of doing business.

 

[roadpilot]

46 years in dealership service departments, the last five with ford, and I have never seen poor quality stuff like this again, I don't know if it's the designers or the builders but nobody seems to put more than 2 minutes thought into anything. And when you start asking questions or when you ask why there isn't part, all the way up the line, people just shrugged and say sorry back order no shift date and then walk off. Whether it's the engineers or the suppliers, no one is held accountable, Ford gets feedback on this stuff by warranty claim info but they do nothing to hold the suppliers accountable. And the suppliers can't do anything without feedback they just keep churning out the same junk.

I ordered a part ~2 months ago. Was told it was on national backorder with no ETA.

A couple weeks after I ordered it, I received the part.

So, yes, sometimes people DO care and DO put more than 2 minutes of thought into it.

 

[kinelisch]

Nowadays is all about making profit somehow and make the stakeholders, board of directors and investors money. Screw quality. Nowadays, the primary focus is on generating profit while also ensuring the satisfaction of stakeholders, the board of directors, and investors. Prioritizing quality is essential.

 

[roadpilot]

Nowadays is all about making profit somehow and make the stakeholders, board of directors and investors money. Screw quality. Nowadays, the primary focus is on generating profit while also ensuring the satisfaction of stakeholders, the board of directors, and investors. Prioritizing quality is essential.

We produce a major sub-assembly for 70% of every single North America market Ford and Lincoln SUV, light truck (F150 to F450) and the Mustang. We pride ourselves on providing a quality product to Ford Motor Company and, ultimately, its customers. So at least from this supplier's point of view, I'm calling bullshit on your stereotyping and ridiculous subjective opinions.

 

[SSuperDave]

From what I have to do is, and correct me if I am mistaken, but you make the HVAC assemblies for the dash. Would this be the same one, that in the S550 mustangs leak so often that when we call extended warranty for authorization and tell them what car it is they laugh and say oh another AC box? The same cases that in a Ford f-150, have a temperature sensor that fails and it can't be replaced without changing the entire HVAC box and not just a small sensor? I don't know if you all over get feedback from Ford if you don't then this isn't on you if you do then you really need to try to do better. There are several others on this board beside myself that work at the dealership level on a day-to-day basis and probably know a heck of a lot more about what's going on at that level than those of you who make this stuff do. I still contend that it's faulty engineering and not caring. Someone mentioned about a certain dollar figure of lost being acceptable, some of you may be old enough for call how that put forward in hot water with the pinto when they knew it had a problem catching fire when hit from behind but the being counters determined that the few wrongful death lawsuits were cheaper than changing the cars obviously that did not go well for them and by all appearances they've learned nothing from it.

 

[roadpilot]

From what I have to do is, and correct me if I am mistaken...

I will do just that.

but you make the HVAC assemblies for the dash.

We assemble the HVAC units, primarily using components that we do NOT produce, but are directed by Ford to purchase from specific suppliers. The only parts we produce are the injected molded housings.

Would this be the same one, that in the S550 mustangs leak so often that when we call extended warranty for authorization and tell them what car it is they laugh and say oh another AC box? The same cases that in a Ford f-150, have a temperature sensor that fails and it can't be replaced without changing the entire HVAC box and not just a small sensor? I don't know if you all over get feedback from Ford if you don't then this isn't on you if you do then you really need to try to do better. There are several others on this board beside myself that work at the dealership level on a day-to-day basis and probably know a heck of a lot more about what's going on at that level than those of you who make this stuff do. I still contend that it's faulty engineering and not caring. Someone mentioned about a certain dollar figure of lost being acceptable, some of you may be old enough for call how that put forward in hot water with the pinto when they knew it had a problem catching fire when hit from behind but the being counters determined that the few wrongful death lawsuits were cheaper than changing the cars obviously that did not go well for them and by all appearances they've learned nothing from it.

(Not sure what all your underlining was for in your original post, so I will remove it in the quote above for improved readability).

We don't design or produce most of the components that go into the HVAC unit. We produce the injection molded housings (the big black parts), and then we assemble the HVAC unit using motors, kinematics, harnesses, doors, gaskets, TXVs, and a very large number of components that are purchased from other suppliers - suppliers that Ford dictates we purchase from.

We don't spec, design or approve the components - Ford does.

We don't get to source the components (aka choose who produces them) - Ford does.

Most of our suppliers are what's referred to as Ford-sourced suppliers. Ford gets to decide who produces these components, and we HAVE to purchase these components from the suppliers that Ford dictates and use these Ford designed, Ford directed components in our builds.

I can guarantee you that there are very few warranty claims involving an HVAC unit that were caused by MY company's assembly process. 99.9% of the warranty claims involve components that we're FORCED to use BY Ford.

There are several others on this board beside myself that work at the dealership level on a day-to-day basis and probably know a heck of a lot more about what's going on at that level than those of you who make this stuff do.

The engineer who handles ALL of the warranty claims for ALL of the HVACs that my company produces is currently sitting about 30 feet directly in front of my office right now. All of the process engineers and manufacturing engineers who developed the assembly lines and processes used to assemble an HVAC are above me on the second floor. I work with them all every single day.

As such, I can guarantee you that we know FAR FAR FAR more about our sub-assembly than ANYONE in ANY dealership knows.

I don't know if you all over get feedback from Ford if you don't then this isn't on you if you do then you really need to try to do better.

Now that you know what we do, what we don't do, and - more importantly - why we do some of it, I would strongly suggest that, before you open your pie hole and start badmouthing us again, you do less assuming and more/better research.

 

[SSuperDave]

So was I suspected you're not directly responsible for this stuff, Ford is. I still maintain that people on the ground with wrenches in their hands have a far better feel for this than you do. It's really not worth discussing any further we've gone too far afield from the original post you've got your opinions and I've got mine and neither one of us is going to sway the other.
And it goes back to the original contention that Ford cares little.

 

[SSuperDave]

And given what you've stated above you should be as indignant as I am about where we're forced to work with cuz it sounds like you're in the same boat

 

[roadpilot]

So was I suspected you're not directly responsible for this stuff, Ford is. I still maintain that people on the ground with wrenches in their hands have a far better feel for this than you do.

We spend days, weeks, months, sometimes even YEARS dissecting HVAC units that are returned (yes, including warranty returns from the dealerships), only to eventually determine that root cause was an engineering design flaw or a purchased component production defect, not something we caused.

With all due respect, most dealership techs follow the diagnostic and repair process, doing ONLY what they are told to do, and when they are done, the parts are tossed aside (or returned) and forgotten about by the tech. Do the techs spend any time trying to determine root cause for the condition that CAUSED them to have to R&R it? Not "Is it bad?" but "WHY is it bad?"? No. We do that. So please don't try to convince me that you know more about our sub-assembly that we do. Techs know how to follow the diagnostics and repair procedures that Ford provides them with because that's the extent of their jobs. That's it.

It's really not worth discussing any further we've gone too far afield from the original post you've got your opinions and I've got mine and neither one of us is going to sway the other.

It's not worth discussing any further because you made some serious assuptions about what my company does, and it turns out you were wrong.

Fair winds and following seas ...

 

[roadpilot]

And given what you've stated above you should be as indignant as I am about where we're forced to work with cuz it sounds like you're in the same boat

Correct, we are not happy when we have to spend 6 months and a milion of our own dollars to determine the root cause of something we've been blamed for was/is an engineering design flaw caused by Ford.

At least for supplier component issues, we can charge them back.

 

[erocker]

And given what you've stated above you should be as indignant as I am about where we're forced to work with cuz it sounds like you're in the same boat

"Ignore" is a good option here. Some people in the industry think they know everything. As someone who's fixed their mistakes the past 40 years, it's a lot of hot air and ego and you'll always run into one on an internet forum.

Sponsored