“Next Gen” Mustang Will be Electric (EV) Only Claims Autoline

[Sivi70980]

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[Cobra Jet]

Nasty cost of an EV recall:
https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/25/tech/hyundai-ev-recall/index.html

LOL... I’m all for progression, but EVERYONE has to really start looking at the big picture regarding the long term impact of EV’s. I’m currently not seeing the cost savings OR environmental savings.

The other thing is - once an EV battery is depleted and has to be replaced - tell me what owner has the out of pocket cash to replace an EV battery AND at what point will EV batteries still be available for older EV platforms? Meaning, is an EV battery going to become just as obsolete as a throw away component as a mobile phone, tablet, computer or other device where the Manufacturer will no longer support it?

 

[shogun32]

or other device where the Manufacturer will no longer support it?

I believe there is a reg that requires something like 10 years of parts availability after warranty expiration, so we'll call it 15yrs? EV batts will evolve fairly rapidly so an ACDelco refurb/rebuilt EV pack will likely have vastly improved cells and control logic despite the 'case' looking the same as it did new 15 years prior.

More concerning will be if said remanufactured EV pack was made in cut-rate places like China by unauthorized copy-catters and their quality control or violation of storage protocols leads to a raging inferno. Well problem solved, right? One obsolete EV put out of it's misery and nothing left to have to recycle. Bury the ash in the landfill and whistle on your merry way. But hopefully not also torching the house and the cars parked to either side of it.

But with enough $$$ from K-street the gov't will likely just mandate that cars can't be owned anymore, just leased so it's no longer a consumer problem.

 

[Gregs24]

More concerning will be if said remanufactured EV pack was made in cut-rate places like China by unauthorized copy-catters and their quality control or violation of storage protocols leads to a raging inferno. Well problem solved, right? One obsolete EV put out of it's misery and nothing left to have to recycle. Bury the ash in the landfill and whistle on your merry way. But hopefully not also torching the house and the cars parked to either side of it.

The same applies to all pattern parts made cheaply, not just batteries.

Having said that the strimmer carburettor I bought for £10 (Chinese pattern part) because originals are not available works a treat and means that the strimmer doesn't go into landfill.

 

[Gregs24]

Nasty cost of an EV recall:
https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/25/tech/hyundai-ev-recall/index.html

LOL... I’m all for progression, but EVERYONE has to really start looking at the big picture regarding the long term impact of EV’s. I’m currently not seeing the cost savings OR environmental savings.

The other thing is - once an EV battery is depleted and has to be replaced - tell me what owner has the out of pocket cash to replace an EV battery AND at what point will EV batteries still be available for older EV platforms? Meaning, is an EV battery going to become just as obsolete as a throw away component as a mobile phone, tablet, computer or other device where the Manufacturer will no longer support it?

You are a bit late to the party on this. Most car makers are now looking at whole of life impacts of everything they do and some already have targets for carbon neutral production and whole of life impacts. Environmental benefit of EV's, especially in cities is completely unquestionable. COVID lockdowns showed the dramatic improvement in air quality when very few ICE cars were on the road.

Most EV cars will fail for other reasons before the battery is exhausted. Ford guarantee theirs will be at or above 80% at 8 years. Plenty of EV's of that age on the road still around here with only marginally reduced range.

Getting parts for older cars can be difficult now, never mind EV's. Plenty of cars end up scrapped because of parts unavailability. Frequently this is because the parts are more expensive than the car is worth so uneconomic to repair. An ICE engine failure in a 10 year old car will mean scrapping it in most cases.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Maybe something will come of Porsche's synthetic e-fuel.

Porsche’s Synthetic eFuel Could Make ICE Cars as Clean as EVs (caranddriver.com)

Sure, it'll probably be fairly expensive, at least in the beginning (if it ends up being a successful alternate to EV). But it wasn't so long ago that we were paying over $4/US gallon where $2.50 had been the rule, and I've paid well over $4 at the track while getting something like 6 mpg.

My point being that I think there would be more upward flexibility in the prices that at least some of us would pay than looking at the e-fuel price only as a multiple of today's gasoline prices might lead you to expect.


Norm

 

[Gregs24]

Maybe something will come of Porsche's synthetic e-fuel.

Porsche’s Synthetic eFuel Could Make ICE Cars as Clean as EVs (caranddriver.com)

Sure, it'll probably be fairly expensive, at least in the beginning (if it ends up being a successful alternate to EV). But it wasn't so long ago that we were paying over $4/US gallon where $2.50 had been the rule, and I've paid well over $4 at the track while getting something like 6 mpg.

My point being that I think there would be more upward flexibility in the prices that at least some of us would pay than looking at the e-fuel price only as a multiple of today's gasoline prices might lead you to expect.


Norm

$4 a gallon - we haven't paid that little for decades ! About $7.50 equivalent at present here so there is plenty of slack still in the system for you.

 

[Sivi70980]

But with enough $$$ from K-street the gov't will likely just mandate that cars can't be owned anymore, just leased so it's no longer a consumer problem.

My dad was telling me a year or so ago that watched something on TV showing a planned future where nobody owns cars anymore. Everything is automated and we order a car every day to get to work and the wait time is just a minute or 2. It drops me off at work and picks you up from near by to take you to your destination. But you gotta hope I didn't sling my poop everywhere during my ride.

 

[Gregs24]

My dad was telling me a year or so ago that watched something on TV showing a planned future where nobody owns cars anymore. Everything is automated and we order a car every day to get to work and the wait time is just a minute or 2. It drops me off at work and picks you up from near by to take you to your destination. But you gotta hope I didn't sling my poop everywhere during my ride.

Volvo have already started this in some places and proving a big success.

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[shogun32]

you gotta hope I didn't sling my poop everywhere during my ride.

Nutella.

 

[BetOnBlack]

You are a bit late to the party on this. Most car makers are now looking at whole of life impacts of everything they do and some already have targets for carbon neutral production and whole of life impacts. Environmental benefit of EV's, especially in cities is completely unquestionable. COVID lockdowns showed the dramatic improvement in air quality when very few ICE cars were on the road.

Most EV cars will fail for other reasons before the battery is exhausted. Ford guarantee theirs will be at or above 80% at 8 years. Plenty of EV's of that age on the road still around here with only marginally reduced range.

Getting parts for older cars can be difficult now, never mind EV's. Plenty of cars end up scrapped because of parts unavailability. Frequently this is because the parts are more expensive than the car is worth so uneconomic to repair. An ICE engine failure in a 10 year old car will mean scrapping it in most cases.

In regards to old parts availability, 3D printing tech has come a long way. I read that Porsche has a restoration program for their classics where they just 3D print new parts that aren't in production. 10 years from now, that tech could be low enough in cost for non-luxury vehicles too.

 

[Sivi70980]

Volvo have already started this in some places and proving a big success.

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Care by Volvo I Car subscription I All-inclusive (volvocars.com)

Not quite. My dad was saying all cars would be self driven and basically uber you around. No more ownership and no more driving. App on your phone will call the car to you and the wait time is supposed to be minimal.

 

[Gregs24]

Not quite. My dad was saying all cars would be self driven and basically uber you around. No more ownership and no more driving. App on your phone will call the car to you and the wait time is supposed to be minimal.

Ahh see what you mean

 

[shogun32]

App on your phone will call the car to you and the wait time is supposed to be minimal.

which would imply charging/staging stations scattered everywhere (very inefficient) in and around otherwise prime real-estate and by definition only realistically honored in high-density metro living. If 'within minutes' response time then it also follows there can't be congestion. Which means vehicle concentration must be enforced by regulating how many can be active in any given quadrant. Welcome to your computer-controlled existence where you are at the mercy of computer algorithms.

 

[Sivi70980]

which would imply charging/staging stations scattered everywhere (very inefficient) in and around otherwise prime real-estate and by definition only realistically honored in high-density metro living. If 'within minutes' response time then it also follows there can't be congestion. Which means vehicle concentration must be enforced by regulating how many can be active in any given quadrant. Welcome to your computer-controlled existence where you are at the mercy of computer algorithms.

Exactly. All of us living in neat little boxes stacked on each other. Mindless husks of humanity needed for nothing but meaningless tasks we haven't yet figured out how to automate. Absolutely joyless. Glad to know I'll be long dead before it can even happen. I hate that I'm tracked but at least nobody is specifically looking at what I do (yet) till I do something terrible. <insert big long complaining tangent>

Anyway, I do like new tech and appreciate cool new gadgets but just hate it being force fed. Hopefully plan A works out and I don't need a new car for another 10+ years and I'll see what's available then. EV's will make a HUGE step in gaining my attention if they lose that stoooopid oversized tablet thing and minimalist dash layout. Quirks and character are good things.

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