“Next Gen” Mustang Will be Electric (EV) Only Claims Autoline

[Norm Peterson]

I think you are equating the word "defiance" with violence or muscle. I think "bucking the current trends" might be another way to express what Norm was stating. The Mustang was small, simple, sporty and relatively inexpensive when it came out. And that defied the trends of the day.

This, exactly.

Think "contrary to established convention".


Norm

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[Norm Peterson]

I'm not forgetting Norm, but really the 260 CID was nothing to brag about either. And as far as the competition what about the Corvette, the Corvair, and , of course, Ford's own Thunderbird. And let's not forget the actual first Pony car, the Barracuda.

Corvette and T-bird are really further up-market than any of the small sedans that evolved into ponycars.

By the early 1960s the T-bird was already settled into its role as the personal-luxury Ford. Corvair never was a ponycar, and earned itself a lot of baggage (not all of which was deserved).

I'm not ignoring the Barracuda, but on the other hand the matter of it beating the Mustang to market - by a couple of weeks - never meant much.

Of course everything changed pretty quickly but I never thought of the Mustang as revolutionary. At least not in an engineering point of view. On the other hand, like it or not, for Ford the Mach-E is revolutionary.

The only thing that's revolutionary about the Mach E is its powertrain. Otherwise it's just another SUV (or CUV, depending on how one wishes to define those categories).


Norm

 

[Norm Peterson]

Greg, chalk it up to American arrogance. If we do not do it first and/or best it doesn't count.

I don't think that's it at all.

I do think it's because Americans are less tolerant of having other people tell them what they can and cannot do, and how to live their lives. If I'm remembering my history somewhere near accurately, that attitude is behind how we ended up NOT being part of the UK.


Norm

 

[Gregs24]

In the overall scheme of things it really doesn't matter how soon 20% is reached. What probably is important is that even triple that is still a long way from 100%. And current purchase rates suggests (rather strongly, I suspect) that 54% could actually represent an asymptotic limit based on mostly free consumer choice where the ICE option still exists.


Norm

EV + PHEV was 67% in December 2020 and 80% in January 2021.

100% will never happen as there will always be classic cars around and old cars for years to come but that will only be a small percentage by 2035 - by which time the 'youngest' ICE car will be 10 years old.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Europe is working on all of those sectors, not just private cars. Even steel production alternatives to coke by using hydrogen are being developed - one of the most difficult areas of fossil fuel use to replace.

Even if EVs must become the norm, using that as an excuse to eliminate relatively low production ICE models amounts to over-reach. The amount of sought-for benefits aren't going to be there - eliminating all the Mustangs, Camaros, Corvettes, Porsches, etc., etc., isn't going to make any measurable difference.

Musk is supplying a product to demand, if people didn't want EV's or they didn't work they wouldn't buy them. My brother in law has done nearly 70k miles in his Model 3 so he is well beyond the 'does it work phase'.

I don't think anybody is arguing that EVs don't work. Or even that they can't work in many situations. Certainly not me.

I'm perfectly OK that a model 3 has worked out for your B-I-L.

But you have to be OK with the idea that if you have to try too hard to like something, that's the basic definition of it being a poor fit for you. Especially when you'd be spending 40k - 55k USD for the privilege of driving something you'd much prefer to avoid having to drive.

As was mentioned before if you drive a compact 1.0 family car an EV will easily replace that.

FWIW, I wouldn't drive that kind of car out of full free choice either.


Norm

 

[Gregs24]

Even if EVs must become the norm, using that as an excuse to eliminate relatively low production ICE models amounts to over-reach. The amount of sought-for benefits aren't going to be there - eliminating all the Mustangs, Camaros, Corvettes, Porsches, etc., etc., isn't going to make any measurable difference.



I don't think anybody is arguing that EVs don't work. Or even that they can't work in many situations. Certainly not me.

I'm perfectly OK that a model 3 has worked out for your B-I-L.

But you have to be OK with the idea that if you have to try too hard to like something, that's the basic definition of it being a poor fit for you. Especially when you'd be spending 40k - 55k USD for the privilege of driving something you'd much prefer to avoid having to drive.



FWIW, I wouldn't drive that kind of car out of full free choice either.


Norm

A lot of people can only afford, or are so uninterested in cars that a 1.0 shopping box is all they want / need. Most people drive very dull cars and a dull ICE and dull EV are much of a muchness - no convincing needed because they really don't care. In fact, on balance, (although I would also choose neither) a shopping trolley EV is probably better than a shopping trolley ICE in most cases.

Mustang owners really are not average people and often struggle to understand how an awful lot of people really don't care what car they have, plenty don't even know what they have got ! My mum has a turquoise Ford - that is as far as it goes. It could run on boiled potatoes for all she cares.

 

[Bikeman315]

Even if EVs must become the norm, using that as an excuse to eliminate relatively low production ICE models amounts to over-reach. The amount of sought-for benefits aren't going to be there - eliminating all the Mustangs, Camaros, Corvettes, Porsches, etc., etc., isn't going to make any measurable difference.

Norm, please take off your binders. This isn't about the world versus performance cars. As you say, performance cars sales are a drop in the bucket overall. No manufacturer is going to drop their bread and butter ICE cars and just leave the performance cars for you and me. When they go, they all go. And none of us will have any say in the matter.

 

[Bikeman315]

I don't think that's it at all.

I do think it's because Americans are less tolerant of having other people tell them what they can and cannot do, and how to live their lives. If I'm remembering my history somewhere near accurately, that attitude is behind how we ended up NOT being part of the UK.

Norm

See that's the arrogance I'm talking about right there. It may not be overt but it's there. There are billions of people worldwide that have little or no tolerance to being told what they have to do. Unfortunately there are many that do not have a choice. And your history is just that, history. Comparing the world today versus 250 years ago is pointless.

I'd love to hear from our friends from outside of the US what their tolerance for being told what to do and how to live their lives.

The only thing that's revolutionary about the Mach E is its powertrain.

Duh! Exactly. The Mach-E is far more revolutionary than the Mustang ever was.

I believe that when the all electric Mustang comes to market it will be both evolutionary and revolutionary. I'm not afraid of it, I will actually welcome it. Will I be sorry that the V8 will be no more? Damn straight. That's why I'm enjoying the one I have right now.

 

[Hack]

See that's the arrogance I'm talking about right there. It may not be overt but it's there. There are billions of people worldwide that have little or no tolerance to being told what they have to do. Unfortunately there are many that do not have a choice. And your history is just that, history. Comparing the world today versus 250 years ago is pointless.

I'd love to hear from our friends from outside of the US what their tolerance for being told what to do and how to live their lives.

Thanks for insulting people by calling them arrogant. I guess I'll insult back, because my feelings are hurt.

I think there are a lot of Americans now who want to be told what to do. Almost 1/2 of us. And they want to be safe in their little cages. Just like any other country, different people want different things. In the past, there were more Americans that you would call arrogant as a percentage than in most other countries. The rule of thumb is city dwellers tend to want more help and people who live away from the cities want less. Country folk are arrogant, apparently.

America has been becoming more and more like Europe in the last 50 years. In another 50 they may be indistinguishable. And many people don't believe in American exceptionalism anymore. They think America is not a place of opportunity but rather a place of exploitation.

America has definitely continued to slide downhill with things getting worse and fewer people have enough "arrogance" to believe that they can go it on their own. The larger corporations buoyed up by the politicians are getting more and more powerful and reducing the opportunities for self-starters.

Duh! Exactly. The Mach-E is far more revolutionary than the Mustang ever was.

I believe that when the all electric Mustang comes to market it will be both evolutionary and revolutionary. I'm not afraid of it, I will actually welcome it. Will I be sorry that the V8 will be no more? Damn straight. That's why I'm enjoying the one I have right now.

Is it revolutionary to build something that governments are saying they will mandate and that other companies have been offering for years? The naming might be revolutionary (and not in a good way), but it's just another electric car. Ford is playing catch up, not leading a revolution. Tesla is the revolutionary company. Or at least they were. It's all old hat now. There are lots of electric cars on the market now. Calling the Mach E revolutionary is like calling the Camaro revolutionary. More like reactionary.

I don't have any fear of Ford no longer making any cars that I want to buy. It will save me money. 2014 was the last time I heard about Ford offering something I absolutely HAD to have. If they never offer something that good again, I'll make do.

 

[Bikeman315]

Thanks for insulting people by calling them arrogant. I guess I'll insult back, because my feelings are hurt.

I think there are a lot of Americans now who want to be told what to do. Almost 1/2 of us. And they want to be safe in their little cages. Just like any other country, different people want different things. In the past, there were more Americans that you would call arrogant as a percentage than in most other countries. The rule of thumb is city dwellers tend to want more help and people who live away from the cities want less. Country folk are arrogant, apparently.

America has been becoming more and more like Europe in the last 50 years. In another 50 they may be indistinguishable. And many people don't believe in American exceptionalism anymore. They think America is not a place of opportunity but rather a place of exploitation.

America has definitely continued to slide downhill with things getting worse and fewer people have enough "arrogance" to believe that they can go it on their own. The larger corporations buoyed up by the politicians are getting more and more powerful and reducing the opportunities for self-starters.

Sorry for hurting your feeling but the truth is the truth. This is from 8 years ago but just as true today. We are not who we think we are. A little humility would be a good thing.

 

[Vlad Soare]

I'd love to hear from our friends from outside of the US what their tolerance for being told what to do and how to live their lives.

Most Romanians, including me, are so intolerant to it that they will do the exact opposite just out of sheer spite.
Come to think of it, this may explain my deep, visceral hatred of EVs. Leave me alone, and I might buy one. Force it upon me, and I will do everything in my power to avoid it.

 

[Bikeman315]

Is it revolutionary to build something that governments are saying they will mandate and that other companies have been offering for years?

I said it was revolutionary for Ford, not the industry. And what does a government have to do with engineers, scientists, etc. developing anything that's revolutionary? Except for possibly funding.

 

[Bikeman315]

Most Romanians, including me, are so intolerant to it that they will do the exact opposite just out of sheer spite.
Come to think of it, this may have something to do with my deep, visceral hatred of EVs. Leave me alone, and I might buy one. Force it upon me, and I will do everything in my power to avoid it.

Spoken like a true American!

 

[Gregs24]

America has been becoming more and more like Europe in the last 50 years.

I very much doubt it. I may be wrong but an awful lot of people in the US think that Europe is one place split up into states like the US. It couldn't be more different !

 

[Gregs24]

I'd love to hear from our friends from outside of the US what their tolerance for being told what to do and how to live their lives.

I don't think anybody likes being told what to do but sometimes you have to accept what a majority want.

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