2024 Dark Horse Handling Package - Tire Change

[DRKKNITE]

The speed rating is in the other number... 102Y or 104Y...

Thanks for the clarification to both of you.

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[Jonyxz]

Keep in mind that pricing is often affect by offer and demand so if supplier has more inventory than demand they can lower that price to move inventory quicker. Tires have an expiration date so the more time they have those tires shelved that could lower price too. Ahh and tariffs but lets not get into that

 

[Junkyard Dog]

https://motoiq.com/how-to-properly-select-and-size-tires-for-performance/

This is a good read and guide.

That was long, but a good read. Thanks.

 

[Junkyard Dog]

Holy F***. What is your definition of “once they’re warmed up”? I ask because I couldn’t go hard at all on my Trofeos once I hit about 2500 miles on the tires. For context, I bought in July, in Texas. The ride home was over 100F and the tires went through summer to late September ( so still summer ) for about 1500 miles and stuck great. At 1800, about 2 weeks into October, it wasn’t sticking as well but still very controllable. By mid November it was about 2200 miles and highs still in the 80’s, lows ... maybe 60’s... take offs were frustrating- dry, wet, cold or warm tires.

I never even made it to the track with them but mine were shagged at 3300 miles, it was just not controllable anymore. I know in max effort stopping, the Trofeos did offer a slight improvement over the PS4S but that’s about as much as I can say about the performance difference.

I’m not in anyway discounting your numbers or results, but I would appreciate some extra context for comparison. I’ve definitely had motorcycle tires that took a bit of time to warm up, I remember riding my old Ducati into work at 17F on the bank thermometer, and I spun like crazy everywhere and had to tip-toe into work. But my Trofeos were slippery everywhere, all the time after about 2500 miles.

First things first - I am not a tire expert or some super fast track hero. So it could be that you are a better driver or drive harder than me and found the limits, whereas I am poking along in comparison.

Mine are slippery when I start out, especially lately as we have had a cold snap here where it might be 60° F when I start out in the morning darkness, like this morning when I awoke at 5 a.m. to meet some clients early who had an issue for me to solve. The tires slip at the slightest prodding of the pedal, especially when stopped and making a turn, like turning right from a driveway or stop sign.

But by the time I have driven to have them hot enough for the little gravel to stick, they stick.

You ask what is my definition of warmed up, but I do not have a tire temperature gauge or anything. I will describe it as best I can: Several PSI more pressure and after driving high speed, for example, 84 mph on the interstate for a stretch, gravel sticks to them, and when I push the car in turns where my Audi was approaching its limits (on PS4s Michelins), the Trofeo RS sticks so hard I feel like I am nowhere near the limits. That is not a very scientific measurement or anything, but they are not slippery or lacking in traction, and they do better than I remember in another car with Michelins (by remember, though, I do have an objective comparison, because I know the actual speed I used to push and I can look at the speedometer in the Mustang and honestly feel that there is a lot more speed that I could push if I wanted to be irresponsible).

I am extra careful when they are cold and not afraid to push it a little when they are hot.

Here is something else, though. Other than driving a little fast (yes, my standard speed on the interstate is 84, and I set the cruise control because I will be buzzing along at 95 if I rely on my right foot and my own sense of speed, not smart), I kind of baby the tires most of the time. Other than one track day of about 2.5 hours where I was practically melting the outside three inches of tread (I should have snapped a photo but did not think about it at the time), I mainly drive around pretty responsibly and maturely. My tires still have plenty of tread (lol, I mean in comparison to when new, I realize they did not start out with a lot of tread). Maybe that has something to do with it? I don't do burnouts or drifting or anything like that.


Rain, though, scares me to death with these tires. They hydroplane on any standing water and are super slippery if the road is even damp, making my roundabout trips more fun but interstate driving downright scary.

 

[LouG]

Track day type tyres are all a bit suspect in the wet. I might even go to Mich PS5's next for mine. They're brilliant in the wet, last well, and I doubt I'll be doing any track days in the near future.
They certainly didn't feel lacking on my last car which was only a little lighter than the Ford.
One thing I did notice on my favourite twisty road over the ranges near here, the Mustang rotates very nicely on trailing throttle.

 

[smurfslayer]

...

But by the time I have driven to have them hot enough for the little gravel to stick, they stick.

You ask what is my definition of warmed up, but I do not have a tire temperature gauge or anything. I will describe it as best I can: Several PSI more pressure and after driving high speed, for example, 84 mph on the interstate for a stretch, gravel sticks to them, and when I push the car in turns where my Audi was approaching its limits (on PS4s Michelins), the Trofeo RS sticks so hard I feel like I am nowhere near the limits. That is not a very scientific measurement or anything, but they are not slippery or lacking in traction, and they do better then I remember in another car with Michelins (by remember, though, I do have an objective comparison, because I know the actual speed I used to push and I can look at the speedometer in the Mustang and honestly feel that there is a lot more speed that I could push if I wanted to be irresponsible).

I am extra careful when they are cold and not afraid to push it a little when they are hot.

Here is something else, though. Other than driving a little fast (yes, my standard speed on the interstate is 84, and I set the cruise control because I will be buzzing along at 95 if I rely on my right foot and my own sense of speed, not smart), I kind of baby the tires most of the time. Other than one track day of about 2.5 hours where I was practically melting the outside three inches of tread (I should have snapped a photo but did not think about it at the time), I mainly drive around pretty responsibly and maturely. My tires still have plenty of tread (lol, I mean in comparison to when new, I realize they did not start out with a lot of tread). Maybe that has something to do with it? I don't do burnouts or drifting or anything like that.


Rain, though, scares me to death with these tires. They hydroplane on any standing water and are super slippery if the road is even damp, making my roundabout trips more fun but interstate driving downright scary.

Many thanks! I can say that by the time my Trofeos were slipping and sliding, at no point would they hold pebbles, rocks, etc. I did get caught in the rain before the 2k mark and just kept my inputs smooth and since it was Texas, the rain was gone in about 5 minutes :-/

based on what you describe I probably gave them a bit more work to do on the street and shortened their lifespan Like you, I’m not a drifter and I was warned here of the cost so burn outs were not on the agenda. now, 60-0 stops, yeah... I may have tested the limits a few times. Ok a lot of times.

 

[Junkyard Dog]

Track day type tyres are all a bit suspect in the wet. I might even go to Mich PS5's next for mine. They're brilliant in the wet, last well, and I doubt I'll be doing any track days in the near future.
They certainly didn't feel lacking on my last car which was only a little lighter than the Ford.
One thing I did notice on my favourite twisty road over the ranges near here, the Mustang rotates very nicely on trailing throttle.

PS5 is the replacement for PS4, but they do not have very many sizes available yet, certainly none that would fit my Dark Horse HP wheels.

 

[DRKKNITE]

Many thanks! I can say that by the time my Trofeos were slipping and sliding, at no point would they hold pebbles, rocks, etc. I did get caught in the rain before the 2k mark and just kept my inputs smooth and since it was Texas, the rain was gone in about 5 minutes :-/

based on what you describe I probably gave them a bit more work to do on the street and shortened their lifespan Like you, I’m not a drifter and I was warned here of the cost so burn outs were not on the agenda. now, 60-0 stops, yeah... I may have tested the limits a few times. Ok a lot of times.

That is a really good point and didn't notice until I read this. That insane amount of pebbles that those tires would pickup certainly did stop as they wore out.

Problem should be solved, found a place that has the Michelin PS4S.
315/30/19 and 305/30/19. Cost $3000.00 Canadian after tax. OUCH.

The question with the ZR coming up was also solved. I got the part # down and called Michelin and both part # were for ZR rating. Seems some shops system still showed as R only. Issues solved and 4 new tires going on next week. I'll report back how the tramlining feels to me with these.

Thanks to everyone for all your help

 

[MCS]

Problem should be solved, found a place that has the Michelin PS4S.
315/30/19 and 305/30/19. Cost $3000.00 Canadian after tax. OUCH.

Just be glad it's North of the Wall...

You don't wanna know what I had to spend to get my SVE DHP1 with PS4S up here

 

[DRKKNITE]

Just be glad it's North of the Wall...

You don't wanna know what I had to spend to get my SVE DHP1 with PS4S up here

Oh my, please share.

 

[AzkAdAsh]

Very common issue with wide & sticky tires. I bought a new Mach1 in 2021 with the handling package and it came with the wide Michelin Sport Cup 2's.....and it was almost undriveable on city streets that had heavy, grooved pavement. On the freeway, I-90 out here in the PNW I had to hold on for dear life given the heavy truck traffic damage to the freeway.
I went down a size and bought Cooper all-seasons and the change was remarkable. All seasons make a lot of sense up here in the great white north....we do get us some rain. But no more tramlining.
So, it's prob not your Mustang, I'd suggest changing to a different tire. I am huge Continental fan, had them on my 911 and SUV, but the Coopers were cheaper and available and turned out to be outstanding if you want to go with an all-season. Let us know how it works out.

To be fair, if you plan to ride I90 for a while, the trucker grooves are well enough established that you can practically go hands free and let the road guide you all the way to Spokane. It's less like tramlining and more like railroading!

 

[Yamazuki]

Oh my, please share.

I put the PS4S' on my stock rims. Tires alone where just over $1800 US.
If I had opted for new wheels, it would have been $4k easy.

 

[LouG]

PS5 is the replacement for PS4, but they do not have very many sizes available yet, certainly none that would fit my Dark Horse HP wheels.

That's a good point, I hope they have the PP sizes when I need them. Probably best to order ahead

 

[D/\rK•650]

I have the exact same car. 24 DHHP.

Tramlining was pretty bad with the Trofeo RS's in Normal driving mode. Sport mode made things a lot more manageable, but you could still tell she wanted to go places you had no intention of sending her.

At 1300 miles on the clock, I decided since the Trofeo's were only going to last me 6k or so that I'd just put the Michelin Pilot Sport 4s's on and be done with it.

They totally changed the way the car drove. No more tramlining, the ride was...slightly...better, and I actually had some tread on the tires now so I didn't figure driving in the rain was going to feel like driving on ice anymore. I don't track the car so I wasn't worried about loosing some traction when it was dry, especially if it meant picking some up when it was wet. Not to mention, the Michelin's pick up and throw a lot less crap then the Trofeo's did.

I just went with the stock 305/315-30/19's and really couldn't be happier.
If there comes a time when I have to replace these, I'll probably go with 325's in the rear.

Would you mind if I ask why do you think you would go with the 325 in the rear ? Im thinking of changing out the stock Trofeos with something else but the 315 rear size is a pain to get in other brands. The continentals looks good but have to get it in 325 rear. Thanks

 

[Yamazuki]

Would you mind if I ask why do you think you would go with the 325 in the rear ? Im thinking of changing out the stock Trofeos with something else but the 315 rear size is a pain to get in other brands. The continentals looks good but have to get it in 325 rear. Thanks

Well, mainly because I like wide tires.
But I also don't feel like 325's are too wide for this car yet and supposedly they'll fit without rubbing.

So, there's nothing scientific about it by any means. Just personal preference.

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