Lets Talk Tuners

[ChitownStang]

I've been patiently waiting and watching as all these different tuners put out their #'s, opinions, etc.
There are so many, and when you call the vendors, they really don't even know much about them.
I"ve had Ford Perf, then Steeda 93 tunes on my 15GT manual
Livernois then Wengerd Flex tunes on my Mach 1 Auto
So I'm not new to tuning.

Some offer Flex and say it works fine and some are adamite that it doesn't ( this is a real problem for me to comprehend and trust anyone)

Options-
No Flex- Wengerd, Lund, Livernois, P1, 5-Star
Flex- Palm Beach, Jugernaut, ,, DRP says they have special Flex logic in their tune. really?

CAI with tune worth it?

My question is , who do you go with?? Who do you believe? Who is most reliable?

It's a real shit show in my opinion

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[Wiley Marmot]

"if' I tune; it won't be until next year some time. Mostly because I want the various tuners to have more time to develop their tune and suss out any issues they may have. I'll likely use Livernois again based on previous very positive experience with them. Still considering driving down there (approx 130 miles for me) and having them install (93 O) and tweak it for my GT on their dyno.

 

[RLE55]

Finding reputable, experienced tuners, especially those that are exclusive to mustangs, should be like looking for a reputable, experienced plumber, electrician or general contractor. Research, inquire, talk to customers, look at reviews, etc.... For me, experience and customer feedback are the most important. Do they stand by their work, provide exceptional customer service and are not risk takers. Since 2006, I've had only 2 tuners work on my mustangs. One is rated as one of the top 10 mustang tuners in the country and the other, so to speak, is a protege of his. Both have over 20 years tuning experience and tune for many professional race car teams & drivers. For me, I would not let anyone outside of these 2 tuners ever attempt tuning on my mustangs.

 

[ChitownStang]

Finding reputable, experienced tuners, especially those that are exclusive to mustangs, should be like looking for a reputable, experienced plumber, electrician or general contractor. Research, inquire, talk to customers, look at reviews, etc.... For me, experience and customer feedback are the most important. Do they stand by their work, provide exceptional customer service and are not risk takers. Since 2006, I've had only 2 tuners work on my mustangs. One is rated as one of the top 10 mustang tuners in the country and the other, so to speak, is a protege of his. Both have over 20 years tuning experience and tune for many professional race car teams & drivers. For me, I would not let anyone outside of these 2 tuners ever attempt tuning on my mustangs.

So who are these 2 tuners you speak of?

 

[ChitownStang]

"if' I tune; it won't be until next year some time. Mostly because I want the various tuners to have more time to develop their tune and suss out any issues they may have. I'll likely use Livernois again based on previous very positive experience wit them. Still considering driving sown there (approx 130 miles for me) andd having them install (93 O) and tweak it for my GT on their dyno.

This is what I keep telling myself with only 3500 miles in the car!
But I’m pretty impatient .. lol

 

[135Hoser]

I've been watching PBD, and I'm pretty sure he made the claim that he's actually seen whipples calibration and is just improving on it with either spark or cam timing adjustment, as he gets incremental gains as he does pulls, but that's not a NA application.

If you want the most reliable, Stay stock. Otherwise pick someone who's established.

I'm dubious DRP has rewritten any of the ECU code to achieve "special flex logic" but maybe their bar for using the term "special logic" is lower than others.

The ECU in the 7g seems pretty advanced, I think you'd have to work REALLY hard to grenade the motor, especially if you're sticking NA. If you had wegnerd before and liked his tune, why not give him repeat business.

You also have the option to wait a bit longer and get the ford performance tune, I think that's coming out shortly, if you just want a bit more power but want to retain your powertrain warranty.

I don't think the tuners offered are a shitshow or shady, there's a wealth of selection and maybe you could talk to them directly and get real info on their claims for no flex support, or maybe they just haven't worked on a car w/ access to e85. I know the HP Tuners platform itself had some real growing pains because HPTuners rushed to get it out the door before SCT, but I don't think that should reflect poorly on the tuners at all.

Also I'll say that all the tuners are likely (90%) working off fords base calibration for the ECU. They're not having to reverse engineer every table and definition. Sure there's bound to be more features added by hptuners as time goes on, but most everyone getting tuned has the same injectors, the same intakes, the engine is going to move about the same amount of air. All the off the shelf tunes should be pretty good, and marginally better than what ford ships the car with.

 

[AZ_Ryan]

I've been patiently waiting and watching as all these different tuners put out their #'s, opinions, etc.
There are so many, and when you call the vendors, they really don't even know much about them.

Some offer Flex and say it works fine and some are adamite that it doesn't ( this is a real problem for me to comprehend and trust anyone)

It's a real shit show in my opinion

You said it. The tuning world seems to be full of opinions and egos. I personally get turned off when tuners make claims and then get salty when you question them. Unfortunately there just doesn't seem to be a scientific approach. I know there are good people that know what they're doing. But I see too much confirmation bias and one sided thinking to have faith in a lot of claims. Especially when they are all trying to sell a product.

I personally think 500HP out of a naturally aspirated V8 is amazing as is, and chasing an extra potential 15-20HP with a tune is just not worth it. I say either go super charged, buy a faster car, or leave well enough alone and enjoy your car.

 

[ZXMustang]

I really dont get your hardon over the flex tune. But if you REALLY must have one, this person is the best at them. The best tuners are the ones you've never heard of, and Robert is one of those. Or Jon at Juggernaut. Both have flex tunes that are as good if not better than any straight E85 tune you can get. Im not trying to sell any of my stuff on here, this is just a professional recommendation.

 

[robvas]

I've been watching PBD, and I'm pretty sure he made the claim that he's actually seen whipples calibration and is just improving on it with either spark or cam timing adjustment, as he gets incremental gains as he does pulls, but that's not a NA application.

I'm dubious DRP has rewritten any of the ECU code to achieve "special flex logic" but maybe their bar for using the term "special logic" is lower than others.

1. the Whipple tune has been "indexed" so that basically means everyone can start with that tune for supercharged cars.

2. I believe that DRP was working with EngineerMike on Mustang6G, and that's who helped them with the missing FlexFuel tables on the S650

 

[Joe_Stang]

You said it. The tuning world seems to be full of opinions and egos. I personally get turned off when tuners make claims and then get salty when you question them. Unfortunately there just doesn't seem to be a scientific approach. I know there are good people that know what they're doing. But I see too much confirmation bias and one sided thinking to have faith in a lot of claims. Especially when they are all trying to sell a product.

I personally think 500HP out of a naturally aspirated V8 is amazing as is, and chasing an extra potential 15-20HP with a tune is just not worth it. I say either go super charged, buy a faster car, or leave well enough alone and enjoy your car.

Well chances are if they are considering a tune, they want more out of the car and aren't enjoying it as much as someone like you would be. Also, for $800 I'd say getting a tune is a better value than buying a faster car and the supercharged route is always going to be the best option for people that arent satisfied with the cars power but most don't have $15k to waste on it lol. So while you think a tune isn't worth it, it is for most people on a budget that want more out of the car

 

[ChitownStang]

I've been watching PBD, and I'm pretty sure he made the claim that he's actually seen whipples calibration and is just improving on it with either spark or cam timing adjustment, as he gets incremental gains as he does pulls, but that's not a NA application.

If you want the most reliable, Stay stock. Otherwise pick someone who's established.

I'm dubious DRP has rewritten any of the ECU code to achieve "special flex logic" but maybe their bar for using the term "special logic" is lower than others.

The ECU in the 7g seems pretty advanced, I think you'd have to work REALLY hard to grenade the motor, especially if you're sticking NA. If you had wegnerd before and liked his tune, why not give him repeat business.

You also have the option to wait a bit longer and get the ford performance tune, I think that's coming out shortly, if you just want a bit more power but want to retain your powertrain warranty.

I don't think the tuners offered are a shitshow or shady, there's a wealth of selection and maybe you could talk to them directly and get real info on their claims for no flex support, or maybe they just haven't worked on a car w/ access to e85. I know the HP Tuners platform itself had some real growing pains because HPTuners rushed to get it out the door before SCT, but I don't think that should reflect poorly on the tuners at all.

Also I'll say that all the tuners are likely (90%) working off fords base calibration for the ECU. They're not having to reverse engineer every table and definition. Sure there's bound to be more features added by hptuners as time goes on, but most everyone getting tuned has the same injectors, the same intakes, the engine is going to move about the same amount of air. All the off the shelf tunes should be pretty good, and marginally better than what ford ships the car with.

Ford tune won’t have the ability to run e85. I do like Wengerd, they did amazing with my 10-speed flex tuning in the Mach 1 but now I have a manual and Wengerd doesn’t seem to be to eager to develop another Flex tune on the S650.

 

[ChitownStang]

I really dont get your hardon over the flex tune. But if you REALLY must have one, this person is the best at them. The best tuners are the ones you've never heard of, and Robert is one of those. Or Jon at Juggernaut. Both have flex tunes that are as good if not better than any straight E85 tune you can get. Im not trying to sell any of my stuff on here, this is just a professional recommendation.

I know ZX, I just like the flexibility and do not like having to reflash tunes at gas stations. I know you say it's so easy but sitting in my car for 10-15 min while a bluetooth app writes data and could have a problem is not my idea of comforting. Plus I don't want to worry about testing to make sure E content didn't change at my local gas station.
I'm really trying to understand why some do it and others don't... still I do not have that detailed answer.
I was looking at Jugernaut and I have some questions emailed to them.
Where is Robert from, what tuner?

 

[ChitownStang]

Well chances are if they are considering a tune, they want more out of the car and aren't enjoying it as much as someone like you would be. Also, for $800 I'd say getting a tune is a better value than buying a faster car and the supercharged route is always going to be the best option for people that arent satisfied with the cars power but most don't have $15k to waste on it lol. So while you think a tune isn't worth it, it is for most people on a budget that want more out of the car

To me $800-$900 is worth it to run E85, not for 93 tune for a manual.
I like noticeable power gains throughout the rpm. To say I have 530hp is way cooler than 500hp! LOL

 

[ZXMustang]

I know ZX, I just like the flexibility and do not like having to reflash tunes at gas stations. I know you say it's so easy but sitting in my car for 10-15 min while a bluetooth app writes data and could have a problem is not my idea of comforting. Plus I don't want to worry about testing to make sure E content didn't change at my local gas station.
I'm really trying to understand why some do it and others don't... still I do not have that detailed answer.
I was looking at Jugernaut and I have some questions emailed to them.
Where is Robert from, what tuner?

Robert Papini. Hes the tuner. Jon is great too with flex. Personally inferred flex has always been more of convenience and not performance. Since you are blending in most cases, you are not getting to full E levels and the car is never giving you full spark/power if set up correctly. If you want the most out of E85, then you need to test it and you need to run a straight E tune. If you are not willing to go that far, then you need to just run 93 or e30 on a 93 tune. Or have your tuner make you an e50 tune.

See what Jon says. He claims he has a flex tune that doesnt sacrifice spark after it learns down AFR.

 

[ChitownStang]

Robert Papini. Hes the tuner. Jon is great too with flex. Personally inferred flex has always been more of convenience and not performance. Since you are blending in most cases, you are not getting to full E levels and the car is never giving you full spark/power if set up correctly. If you want the most out of E85, then you need to test it and you need to run a straight E tune. If you are not willing to go that far, then you need to just run 93 or e30 on a 93 tune. Or have your tuner make you an e50 tune.

See what Jon says. He claims he has a flex tune that doesnt sacrifice spark after it learns down AFR.

Ok, thanks for the recommendations ZX … I’m just blending e30 now being stock.
I would be running straight e70 from my local pump in summer months and 93 in winter. In the summer I may drive further into the country to mountain bike and E85 pumps are not available. Or maybe I go to the road course track and go back to 93.

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