Opinions or knowledge of PPF and Ceramic Coatings

[DRKKNITE]

So I had the entire front end done in PPF and with ceramic pro. Dealer covered the ceramic pro and I negotiated the PPF. Well the PPF did not set well, mainly on the hood and some other crease flaws and bubbles. Some photos attached.

I am taking it back to get redone, of course covered. So here is my problem. When it was done first, I was told it needed 24 hours to cure and then I could take it home. It is an hour from my home. He also said driving in the rain after 24 hours is OK, which I don't think is correct.

So my understanding is that the PPF goes on first and the ceramic coating goes on after. He is telling me now he can fix this in 3 hours and I can drive it home as he will precoat the PPF with ceramic the day before. Does that make any sense? Doesn't ceramic harden and how would you stretch the PPF to get it on well?

SO the coating is ceramic pro but the PPF was Expel Ultimate. He told me that for me to not have to come back he'd use Kavaca PPF that ceramic pro uses. Apparently pre coated in Ceramic. He feels the Expel Ultimate is a better product though.

And when is it ok to drive in the rain after Ceramic or PPF. Weather looks bad all week.

Any information would be appreciated before I go back to the guy that did it wrong the first time.


Thanks,

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[RLE55]

Yea, not sure a Ceramic Coating over the PPF is the way to go. The CC has to bond with the paint and over time (about 2 weeks) it fully cures, giving the paint/clearcoat the protection it needs. And, thinking about it, not sure putting a PPF over a CC is right either, think it's one or the other.....but I'm no expert on this stuff.

 

[DFB5.0]

While applying the coating prior to the PPF can be done, I've seen it done, it's not really advised. So, have the paint corrected, the PPF applied and then the ceramic coating applied to the PPF.

 

[Ryunker]

Ok I have many opinions on ceramic coat. First mistake many make is to ceramic coat before factory paint has cured 100%. How long is that? The answer to that is where the magic happens.

My build date is/was 3 December 2023, last time I measured the paint thickness on March 14th, the finish had still shrunk from Feb 14th. Will be re-measuring next weekend.

When paints cure, chemicals in them "escape" and the finish gets thinner.

Ceramic coat is awesome, dries hard and one can not see how the paint can cure with ceramic atop of the finish. Very few owners have the patience to wait and ensure factory coatings are cured first nor do shops want to loose any revenue. Dealers don't want you to wait as ceramics and PPF are great add on to the emotions tied to new car purchases so they (dealers) push this stuff right away with delivery to ensure the "fluff" of the purchase price.

Ceramic coats right away look fantastic, no argument there, they also require cure times, yes rain after 24 hours is standard, but the "cure times" a different story, the products I use are 8 days to cure.

I have not done ceramic on uncured finish, nor followed cars that may have done it to early, but most times in automotive finishes including refinishes not allowing proper cure times always ends in bad results.

 

[roadpilot]

Ok I have many opinions on ceramic coat. First mistake many make is to ceramic coat before factory paint has cured 100%. How long is that? The answer to that is where the magic happens.

My build date is/was 3 December 2023, last time I measured the paint thickness on March 14th, the finish had still shrunk from Feb 14th. Will be re-measuring next weekend.

When paints cure, chemicals in them "escape" and the finish gets thinner.

Ceramic coat is awesome, dries hard and one can not see how the paint can cure with ceramic atop of the finish. Very few owners have the patience to wait and ensure factory coatings are cured first nor do shops want to loose any revenue. Dealers don't want you to wait as ceramics and PPF are great add on to the emotions tied to new car purchases so they (dealers) push this stuff right away with delivery to ensure the "fluff" of the purchase price.

Ceramic coats right away look fantastic, no argument there, they also require cure times, yes rain after 24 hours is standard, but the "cure times" a different story, the products I use are 8 days to cure.

I have not done ceramic on uncured finish, nor followed cars that may have done it to early, but most times in automotive finishes including refinishes not allowing proper cure times always ends in bad results.

Do you (or does anyone) have any links to any reputable web sites or information confirming this? Not looking for anecdotal evidence. I've searched a bit and can't seem to find anything to support this. TIA.

 

[Ryunker]

Do you (or does anyone) have any links to any reputable web sites or information confirming this? Not looking for anecdotal evidence. I've searched a bit and can't seem to find anything to support this. TIA.

My only proof is the actual measuring of the finish.

 

[Southpaw78]

So I had the entire front end done in PPF and with ceramic pro. Dealer covered the ceramic pro and I negotiated the PPF. Well the PPF did not set well, mainly on the hood and some other crease flaws and bubbles. Some photos attached.

I am taking it back to get redone, of course covered. So here is my problem. When it was done first, I was told it needed 24 hours to cure and then I could take it home. It is an hour from my home. He also said driving in the rain after 24 hours is OK, which I don't think is correct.

So my understanding is that the PPF goes on first and the ceramic coating goes on after. He is telling me now he can fix this in 3 hours and I can drive it home as he will precoat the PPF with ceramic the day before. Does that make any sense? Doesn't ceramic harden and how would you stretch the PPF to get it on well?

SO the coating is ceramic pro but the PPF was Expel Ultimate. He told me that for me to not have to come back he'd use Kavaca PPF that ceramic pro uses. Apparently pre coated in Ceramic. He feels the Expel Ultimate is a better product though.

And when is it ok to drive in the rain after Ceramic or PPF. Weather looks bad all week.

Any information would be appreciated before I go back to the guy that did it wrong the first time.


Thanks,

How long has the PPF been on the car? From my research it can takes weeks for smalI bubbles to evaporate but that looks pretty bad. I'd want it redone as well. I just had my front end done with Suntek Reaction that has hydrophobic properties which the installer called "ceramic coating" but it's included in the PPF not applied before installation. I still plan on adding a ceramic coating.

 

[DRKKNITE]

How long has the PPF been on the car? From my research it can takes weeks for smalI bubbles to evaporate but that looks pretty bad. I'd want it redone as well. I just had my front end done with Suntek Reaction that has hydrophobic properties which the installer called "ceramic coating" but it's included in the PPF not applied before installation. I still plan on adding a ceramic coating.

It has been almost 4 weeks. I was questioning that it may heal itself because it has been somewhat cold in Ontario Canada. We've been at 35 - 50 degrees Fahrenheit lately but I'd leave it out in the sun when I could. Now I need to time it well to get it done and pickup the next day and pray it doesn't rain on it on the way home. My understanding it should not see rain until fully cured or close.

 

[DRKKNITE]

While applying the coating prior to the PPF can be done, I've seen it done, it's not really advised. So, have the paint corrected, the PPF applied and then the ceramic coating applied to the PPF.

Thank you for the reply, that is what I thought.

 

[roadpilot]

Just dropped the DH off at Livingston Auto Spa for decontamination, 1-step paint correction, IGL Kenzo ceramic coat (paint, plastic, and wheels), Glassparency, and Apex ceramic window tint. Can't wait until she gets done!

 

[DRKKNITE]

Just dropped the DH off at Livingston Auto Spa for decontamination, 1-step paint correction, IGL Kenzo ceramic coat (paint, plastic, and wheels), Glassparency, and Apex ceramic window tint. Can't wait until she gets done!

I am sure you will love it. I must have dropped another $500.00 on cleaning supplies to make sure I clean the ceramic properly.

Note on the original post the shop that screwed my PPF gave me $1500.00 back. The PPF alone cost me 2200.00 plus 13% tax. So it was not a fair refund but I took what I could get. It's really only the hood I need to redo, but doing the hood and then ceramic over it will cost more than $1500.00 I am sure. I did not want to go back to the same place that screwed it up as it is over an hour drive. Live and learn.

 

[Vapor Blue GT]

As others stated, PPF needs to go on a clean paint, not coated. You will have problems later. The ceramic coating needs a cure time as well. A day to a week sometimes. PPF then ceramic coat the PPf if you want extra protection. Either way you will need to use a water spot remover or similar product once in awhile to clean to PPF or ceramic coating.

 

[roadpilot]

As others stated, PPF needs to go on a clean paint, not coated. You will have problems later. The ceramic coating needs a cure time as well. A day to a week sometimes. PPF then ceramic coat the PPf if you want extra protection. Either way you will need to use a water spot remover or similar product once in awhile to clean to PPF or ceramic coating.

Not the detail shop I used. In fact, I was going to do some PPF behind the wheels and the ceramic coat. He said we would HAVE to do PPF first or wait the week+ for ceramic cure time before doing the PPF, but the best choice was to do the ceramic first, wait, then PPF. I did the latter. When we get home from vacation, it will be over a week since ceramic and window tint was done. Will be going back for that PPF later this month or next month.

 

[roadpilot]

I am sure you will love it. I must have dropped another $500.00 on cleaning supplies to make sure I clean the ceramic properly.

Everything he told me I should pick up came out to under $275.

 

[Vapor Blue GT]

Not the detail shop I used. In fact, I was going to do some PPF behind the wheels and the ceramic coat. He said we would HAVE to do PPF first or wait the week+ for ceramic cure time before doing the PPF, but the best choice was to do the ceramic first, wait, then PPF. I did the latter. When we get home from vacation, it will be over a week since ceramic and window tint was done. Will be going back for that PPF later this month or next month.

That’s interesting. Ours recommended the exact opposite. I wanted ceramic first and was told it may interfere with the PPF holding up and I’d be wasting money on the coating as it would be covered by the PPF. Obviously there’s different opinions on this process from the professionals.

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