Steeda claims it, is it real world?

[Achlys]

Unless you’re driving through Texas!
101 degrees at 7:45pm
I know it’s not AZ hot, but damn!

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[Dave2013M3]

Having heard both, I believe it. It stands to reason there would be SOME small gains with a completely open chamber muffler. Steeda says a mid pipe gives you 3hp. But yeah who knows what they really are.

I have seen back to back dynos in S. Cali where the non AE made just as much as an AE exhaust car. Now I realize there is a lot of variable.

 

[Cody5.0]

Badges/Trim, a rear diff cooler, and the alleged extra 14 HP. If different connecting rods make you feel special, it has those too. The Tremec is the only notable upgrade if you get a manual.

Are we just going to ignore the brakes?


In any case I got all of that for less than $5k more than a GT. In the last decade all I had was GT’s because that’s all I wanted. But I still won’t say the GTPP is almost a Dark Horse and if it was I would’ve bought one.

 

[Q6543]

Met a new dark horse owner at a car show a few weeks ago, it was an ember, handling pack car.

around 70k I think he said, but anyway, it was GD beautiful, the smoothness of the color, the way it sits stock, factory rubber etc… they’re damn sweet looking cars!
He was loving it

 

[Achlys]

$10000 to one person is 1 cent to another. It really depends on what a person wants to drive and how they want to drive it. Could I buy a DH, sure, but it’s more car than I need or want. Now if I can modify my car and make it the way I want it to look and run for less dollars then why not save the dollars. Throw in some bolt on’s and get a custom tune and out run a stock DH on the street, seems fun to me. I appreciate the thread and this forum for that matter. The amount that I have learn from everyone is priceless!

 

[AZ_Ryan]

Are we just going to ignore the brakes?


In any case I got all of that for less than $5k more than a GT. In the last decade all I had was GT’s because that’s all I wanted. But I still won’t say the GTPP is almost a Dark Horse and if it was I would’ve bought one.

Nope. You can get 6 piston brembo brakes on a GT premium as an option, and they are standard on the PP.

 

[Zig]

Unless you’re driving through Texas!
101 degrees at 7:45pm
I know it’s not AZ hot, but damn!

Ventilated seats (if equipped)

 

[Junkyard Dog]

TEH TREMEC vs the MT-82
GT500 connecting rods
Strengthened camshafts (whatever that means)
Uniquely balanced crankshaft
Different front bumper with more airflow
Availability of the "handling pack"
Gurney flap for added downforce
Adjustable strut top mounts for track camber tuning
Revised chassis tuning
Stiffer overall spring and sway bar rates

Nope. You can get 6 piston brembo brakes on a GT premium as an option, and they are standard on the PP.

The front brake rotors are different on the Dark Horse, as well, compared to the GT with performance package.

I also suspect, but cannot prove, that the ABS is biased toward a allowing higher brake output, at least on the handling package Dark Horses, designed to take full advantage of the Pirelli Trofeo RS tires that are on the car when hot on track.

I make this last statement based on tracking the car with those tires and practically standing on the brakes downhill from triple digit speeds, over and over and over. The only result was that I kept finding I could still brake later on the next lap, and a little later on the next lap. They were pretty amazing, frankly, but I never got the ABS to engage.

With the Michelin PS4S, still ultra high performance summer tires, I have managed to get the ABS to engage, so I do know the difference.

Also, over at trackmustangsonline.com, everybody with other cars (not Dark Horse) has issues with ABS, even with sticky tires. Search for "ice mode" and see all of the posts (it is not unique to Mustangs). Some of them are extremely frustrated.

While I am a novice driver on a track, I had never quite encountered the braking ability of this car. (Neither had Motor Trend!)

I have never driven a GT performance package with aftermarket sticky tires on track for comparison, maybe somebody who has tracked both could comment.

Guys with $$$$ often switch over to the Bosch ABS (e.g, M5, about $8k) which is dialed in for hot racing tires and track surfaces but can be dialed in for wet racing if needed. It has no allowance for snow or ice like factory ABS systems. It allows for much higher braking G forces.

The Dark Horse generates a sustained average of 1.4G, according to this:




Other Mustangs, indeed, other factory cars, cannot match that braking. I haven't seen any testing to indicate that the other S650 cars can match the Dark Horse HP braking, even with upgraded tires.

And the Dark Horse keeps it up, over and over, at least for 20-30 minute sessions at Road Atlanta at my driving ability.

 

[Junkyard Dog]

I wonder how much they suffer from heat issues? I will say this when I was romping on mine on a twisty out here. It was pretty hot day and I pushed it pretty hard on a straight uphill and it seemed like it lost a bit when climbing. I have not actually tracked it maybe someone that has can chime in? Do you think it has heat issues more than any other stock setup? I mean in the way engines all suffer when too hot.

I never watched the temperatures on track (too busy driving, lol), but my car has never gone into a limp mode. I am a novice driver, however.

The temperatures are going to depend upon the ambient temperature and who is driving. If you put some professional driver in there, and you have good tires (the Pirelli Trofeo RS or better), he is going to be able to overheat the car and throw it into limp mode before a standard 20-30 minute HPDE session is over. For most of the rest of us, however, the Dark Horse cooling works very well.

Over at TrackMustangsOnline.com, there are lots of threads about cooling and various Mustangs. While some of the cars get some high readings, I do not recall anybody having to stop pushing a Dark Horse on track due to temperatures. There are only a few of them on the site, though.

 

[Junkyard Dog]

Met a new dark horse owner at a car show a few weeks ago, it was an ember, handling pack car.

around 70k I think he said, but anyway, it was GD beautiful, the smoothness of the color, the way it sits stock, factory rubber etc… they’re damn sweet looking cars!
He was loving it

I get folks stopping and commenting on the paint and appearance of the car all the time, and mine is not a "detailed" and shiny car show car like some of the others I see here (jealous). (I try to keep it reasonably clean, but I drive it rain or shine, and I have a well, which makes washing the car complicated)

 

[AZ_Ryan]

I never watched the temperatures on track (too busy driving, lol), but my car has never gone into a limp mode. I am a novice driver, however.

The temperatures are going to depend upon the ambient temperature and who is driving. If you put some professional driver in there, and you have good tires (the Pirelli Trofeo RS or better), he is going to be able to overheat the car and throw it into limp mode before a standard 20-30 minute HPDE session is over. For most of the rest of us, however, the Dark Horse cooling works very well.

Over at TrackMustangsOnline.com, there are lots of threads about cooling and various Mustangs. While some of the cars get some high readings, I do not recall anybody having to stop pushing a Dark Horse on track due to temperatures. There are only a few of them on the site, though.

https://www.mustang7g.com/forums/threads/dark-horse-limp-mode-on-track.161334/

 

[AZ_Ryan]

The front brake rotors are different on the Dark Horse, as well, compared to the GT with performance package.

I also suspect, but cannot prove, that the ABS is biased toward a allowing higher brake output, at least on the handling package Dark Horses, designed to take full advantage of the Pirelli Trofeo RS tires that are on the car when hot on track.

I make this last statement based on tracking the car with those tires and practically standing on the brakes downhill from triple digit speeds, over and over and over. The only result was that I kept finding I could still brake later on the next lap, and a little later on the next lap. They were pretty amazing, frankly, but I never got the ABS to engage.

With the Michelin PS4S, still ultra high performance summer tires, I have managed to get the ABS to engage, so I do know the difference.

Also, over at trackmustangsonline.com, everybody with other cars (not Dark Horse) has issues with ABS, even with sticky tires. Search for "ice mode" and see all of the posts (it is not unique to Mustangs). Some of them are extremely frustrated.

While I am a novice driver on a track, I had never quite encountered the braking ability of this car. (Neither had Motor Trend!)

I have never driven a GT performance package with aftermarket sticky tires on track for comparison, maybe somebody who has tracked both could comment.

Guys with $$$$ often switch over to the Bosch ABS (e.g, M5, about $8k) which is dialed in for hot racing tires and track surfaces but can be dialed in for wet racing if needed. It has no allowance for snow or ice like factory ABS systems. It allows for much higher braking G forces.

The Dark Horse generates a sustained average of 1.4G, according to this:




Other Mustangs, indeed, other factory cars, cannot match that braking. I haven't seen any testing to indicate that the other S650 cars can match the Dark Horse HP braking, even with upgraded tires.

And the Dark Horse keeps it up, over and over, at least for 20-30 minute sessions at Road Atlanta at my driving ability.

The only difference in brakes between the GTPP and the DH is the two peice front rotors in the DH. The calipers and rotor sizes are the same. The two peice design does disapate heat better, but the novice track driver would never notice a difference as driver skill plays much more of a roll in breaking.

Again, my argument was never that the GTPP and DH were the same. Dark Horse guys can split hairs about rotors, connecting rods, and wheels all they want. My point is that the GTPP and DH are CLOSE ENOUGH that Ford's price was on the DH was not justified. Not to mention MOST DHs never see the track to justify the differences. Anecdotal stories of getting deals under MSRPs don't change that. Plenty of people got deals on GTPPs too.

 

[Junkyard Dog]

The only difference in brakes between the GTPP and the DH is the two peice front rotors in the DH. The calipers and rotor sizes are the same. The two peice design does disapate heat better, but the novice track driver would never notice a difference as driver skill plays much more of a roll in breaking.

Again, my argument was never that the GTPP and DH were the same. Dark Horse guys can split hairs about rotors, connecting rods, and wheels all they want. My point is that the GTPP and DH are CLOSE ENOUGH that Ford's price was on the DH was not justified. Not to mention MOST DHs never see the track to justify the differences. Anecdotal stories of getting deals under MSRPs don't change that. Plenty of people got deals on GTPPs too.

I am not arguing - just sharing what I know (and speculating a little about some things I do not, like the insanely high braking forces - which make me bet that there may be a difference in the programming for the ABS system).

Not taking a side.

I haven't heard of anybody with the GT performance pack ranting on and on about how great the car brakes on track. I also have not driven one myself.

Everybody who has driven the Dark Horse handling package car on tracks is amazed by the car's stopping ability.

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