Rant after driving a M2 and M3

[infinitemberstang]

Alright, buckle up because we're about to dive into why the Mustang Dark Horse stick shift blows the M2 and M3 out of the water.


First off, let’s talk about those shifts. The Mustang Dark Horse's stick shift is an absolute dream. Every gear change is a satisfying, tactile experience that you just don’t get with the M2 or M3. Those Bimmers might be slick, but they lack the mechanical connection that makes driving truly exhilarating. The notchiness of the Dark Horse’s gearbox gives you the confidence that every shift is precise and purposeful, turning every drive into a symphony of clicks and clunks that you control.

Then there’s the engine. Forget about waiting for turbos to spool up – the Mustang's naturally aspirated V8 delivers instant power right off the line. The torque is there, ready to be exploited at low RPMs, making every acceleration smooth and immediate. Turbo lag? Never heard of her. The Dark Horse doesn’t need a wait-and-see approach; it’s all go, all the time.


And let’s not ignore the aesthetics and acoustics. The Mustang Dark Horse looks and sounds incredible straight from the factory. The stock setup gives you a visceral growl that sends shivers down your spine, and its aggressive, muscular stance demands attention on the road. The M2 and M3? Sure, they’re nice, but they just don’t have that raw, untamed presence that the Mustang brings.


The MagneRide suspension in the Dark Horse is another game-changer. It adapts to the road in real-time, making even the roughest surfaces feel like a freshly paved track. You hardly feel any bumps, which is a far cry from the sometimes harsh rides you get in the M2 and M3. Comfort and performance? The Dark Horse delivers both in spades.


Oh, and let’s talk clutches. The clutches in the M2 and M3 are notoriously sticky, making it a hassle to get off the line quickly and smoothly. The Dark Horse, on the other hand, has a clutch that’s perfectly balanced – not too light, not too heavy – giving you the control you need to launch like a pro every single time.


Now, if we’re talking stopping power, the Mustang Dark Horse is unmatched. Its brakes are top of the market right now, providing you with the confidence that you can bring all that power to a halt without a second thought. The M2 and M3 might have good brakes, but they can’t hold a candle to what the Dark Horse offers.



Let’s not forget the interior touches. The flat-bottom steering wheel in the Mustang Dark Horse not only looks sportier but also provides better legroom and a more aggressive driving position. It’s a small detail that makes a huge difference, especially compared to the more conventional wheels in the M2 and M3.



And finally, the infotainment system. BMW’s iDrive might be packed with features, but it’s also notoriously complex and confusing. The Mustang’s system is straightforward and user-friendly, allowing you to focus on the driving experience rather than fiddling with menus and settings.

In summary, the 2024 Mustang Dark Horse offers unbeatable value for its price. It outperforms and outshines the more expensive M2 and M3 in almost every aspect. So, instead of complaining about the price, recognize the incredible deal you’re getting. The Mustang Dark Horse is worth every penny.

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[Polo08816]

The problem that I see is that the 2025 Mustang DH Premium with the Recaros and Handling Package MSRPs for almost $78,000.

That's well above M2 territory ($65,000) and that's arguably more than a new C8 2LT Z51 vehicle since the volume Corvette dealers are $6,000 to $9,000 off MSRP these days.

Performance comparisons are debatable because most DHs that have been reviewed by the more popular outfits have the HP with the cheater tires. I just don't see that many of them at the track compared to M2s.

 

[infinitemberstang]

The 2025 might be a lil overpriced / hence I said a 2024 DH in the post.

 

[Doug Watson]

Ford has learning nothing with the MT82. I had a Boss 302 in 13 and loved the car but the shifter was total crap, tried everything to make it better but in the end still junk . My 22 Mach 1 is a dream to shift. Why would they still insist on installing this crap when the Tremec is the way to go. They should at lease let the customer have the option of choosing which one they want.

 

[kagemusha2662]

The 2025 might be a lil overpriced / hence I said a 2024 DH in the post.

Doesn’t even matter because the 2024s that do sit on the lot now are gonna get marked up because the 2025 is more expensive. The difference in price over one year is crazy

 

[roadpilot]

The problem that I see is that the 2025 Mustang DH Premium with the Recaros and Handling Package MSRPs for almost $78,000.

That's well above M2 territory ($65,000) and that's arguably more than a new C8 2LT Z51 vehicle since the volume Corvette dealers are $6,000 to $9,000 off MSRP these days.

Performance comparisons are debatable because most DHs that have been reviewed by the more popular outfits have the HP with the cheater tires. I just don't see that many of them at the track compared to M2s.

 

[Dragster]

Ford has learning nothing with the MT82. I had a Boss 302 in 13 and loved the car but the shifter was total crap, tried everything to make it better but in the end still junk . My 22 Mach 1 is a dream to shift. Why would they still insist on installing this crap when the Tremec is the way to go. They should at lease let the customer have the option of choosing which one they want.

For the price increase in 25, the Tremec should be standard in the GT.

 

[Dragster]

The problem that I see is that the 2025 Mustang DH Premium with the Recaros and Handling Package MSRPs for almost $78,000.

That's well above M2 territory ($65,000) and that's arguably more than a new C8 2LT Z51 vehicle since the volume Corvette dealers are $6,000 to $9,000 off MSRP these days.

Performance comparisons are debatable because most DHs that have been reviewed by the more popular outfits have the HP with the cheater tires. I just don't see that many of them at the track compared to M2s.

Yeah, I don't quite understand what Ford is doing here. The S650 is already not a hot seller, and yet they're going to come out with a sizable price increase that's well above inflation and well above most other models. That might be understandable if there were notable upgrades, but instead the car lost wireless charging (not that big of a deal but still a downgrade). That's not exactly going to entice new customers.

 

[roadpilot]

Yeah, I don't quite understand what Ford is doing here. The S650 is already not a hot seller, and yet they're going to come out with a sizable price increase that's well above inflation and well above most other models. That might be understandable if there were notable upgrades, but instead the car lost wireless charging (not that big of a deal but still a downgrade). That's not exactly going to entice new customers.

As James Carville said back in '92, "It's the economy, stupid."

Nothing that's not a necessity is a hot seller. Interest rates at 7-8-9-10 percent or more. Credit card debt way up. Inflation driving up the prices of everything over the last 3.5 years 20 to 200 percent or more. Gas is double. Groceries are outrageous. Everything is ultra expensive, so people are far less likely to plunk down a huge chunk of change or finance a big number for a "sports" car.

 

[Dragster]

As James Carville said back in '92, "It's the economy, stupid."

Nothing that's not a necessity is a hot seller. Interest rates at 7-8-9-10 percent or more. Credit card debt way up. Inflation driving up the prices of everything over the last 3.5 years 20 to 200 percent or more. Gas is double. Groceries are outrageous. Everything is ultra expensive, so people are far less likely to plunk down a huge chunk of change or finance a big number for a "sports" car.

I agree with what you're saying, but there's no way that Ford isn't disappointed that the refreshed Mustang didn't cause an uptick in sales. The economy also didn't stop the Corvette from increasing sales quarter over quarter (yes, these buyers may be less sensitive to interest rates and inflation, but still). I also agree that everything is up, but the issue for me is that the cost of the Mustang is up well beyond its competition. The price of the Mustang is up almost 27% since 2020 while the Corvette has increased 16%.

 

[roadpilot]

I agree with what you're saying, but there's no way that Ford isn't disappointed that the refreshed Mustang sold less than the outgoing car for at least a quarter (I haven't checked recently).

I don't doubt they were not disappointed, but I know they were not surprised. No offense to anyone here, but the Mustang is an entry-level sports/pony car. MOST people who buy them aren't going to comparison shop a Corvette. Corvette buyers are older, have more money, less debt, dont' need back seats, and can afford to buy a car and store it away for 6 months out of the year in the northern states. MOST people who buy Mustangs are NOT buying them for a second/fun vehicle.

The economy also didn't stop the Corvette from increasing sales quarter over quarter (yes, these buyers may be less sensitive to interest rates and inflation, but still).

See above. And, yes, most Corvette buyers don't need to worry about interest rates.

I also agree that everything is up, but the issue for me is that the cost of the Mustang is up well beyond its competition. The price of the Mustang is up almost 27% since 2020 while the Corvette has increased 16%.

Mustangs and Corvettes have totally different target audiences. Again, see above.

My most recent sports car before the DH was a '16 Corvette Z06. It was not my daily driver. It sat most of the time. I can afford to do the same with the DH. But if I was younger, still had kids at home, paid for child care, used it as a daily driver, or was only making a salary comparable to what most "younger" people are making these days, I can guarantee you that I would not have a Mustang or a Corvette in my garage.

 

[kagemusha2662]

I don't doubt they were not disappointed, but I know they were not surprised. No offense to anyone here, but the Mustang is an entry-level sports/pony car. MOST people who buy them aren't going to comparison shop a Corvette. Corvette buyers are older, have more money, less debt, dont' need back seats, and can afford to buy a car and store it away for 6 months out of the year in the northern states. MOST people who buy Mustangs are NOT buying them for a second/fun vehicle.

See above. And, yes, most Corvette buyers don't need to worry about interest rates.

Mustangs and Corvettes have totally different target audiences. Again, see above.

My most recent sports car before the DH was a '16 Corvette Z06. It was not my daily driver. It sat most of the time. I can afford to do the same with the DH. But if I was younger, still had kids at home, paid for child care, used it as a daily driver, or was only making a salary comparable to what most "younger" people are making these days, I can guarantee you that I would not have a Mustang or a Corvette in my garage.

I feel like it used to be that way, but with the price increases for the S650 it has shifted to cross shopping the vette or other cars. That was literally me last year, but your practicality reason is why I went with the dark horse, and I’m very glad I did go with it last year before this year. But the point still stands I think that with these price increases, you’re gonna see a lot of enthusiasts shift away from Mustangs and into other cars. The price point isn’t an entry price point anymore, that belongs to the JDMs now with the GR86/BRZ/Miata. It’s all about pricing and consumers make decisions with their wallets at the end of the day. I think with these price increases and the sales numbers dipping, this generation of Mustang could very well be the last

 

[roadpilot]

I feel like it used to be that way, but with the price increases for the S650 it has shifted to cross shopping the vette or other cars.

I don't buy base model cars. That's why I bought a Dark Horse Premium. If I cross shopped the Corvette, I would have to have looked at a base Corvette to stay in the same price range. No thanks. If I'm cross shopping a top of the line DH, then I'm looking at a Z06. You can't touch a Z06 for the $68K I paid for the DH.

That was literally me last year, but your practicality reason is why I went with the dark horse, and I’m very glad I did go with it last year before this year.

Exactly the point I made about the Corvette sales increasing -- Mustang buyers have to be more practical, while Corvette buyers do not.

But the point still stands I think that with these price increases, you’re gonna see a lot of enthusiasts shift away from Mustangs and into other cars. The price point isn’t an entry price point anymore, that belongs to the JDMs now with the GR86/BRZ/Miata.

If I was cross shopping a Mustang, I wouldn't be cross shopping that garbage. You couldn't pay me to drive any of those, and I'm sure as hell not spending my money on one. They are nowhere near being in the same league as a 486-500HP Mustang GT/DH.

It’s all about pricing and consumers make decisions with their wallets at the end of the day. I think with these price increases and the sales numbers dipping, this generation of Mustang could very well be the last

If I had a nickel for every time I've heard someone say that over the past ~6 decades, I could probably buy another Z06!

 

[kagemusha2662]

I don't buy base model cars. That's why I bought a Dark Horse Premium. If I cross shopped the Corvette, I would have to have looked at a base Corvette to stay in the same price range. No thanks. If I'm cross shopping a top of the line DH, then I'm looking at a Z06. You can't touch a Z06 for the $68K I paid for the DH.

Exactly the point I made about the Corvette sales increasing -- Mustang buyers have to be more practical, while Corvette buyers do not.

If I was cross shopping a Mustang, I wouldn't be cross shopping that garbage. You couldn't pay me to drive any of those, and I'm sure as hell not spending my money on one. They are nowhere near being in the same league as a 486-500HP Mustang GT/DH.

If I had a nickel for every time I've heard someone say that over the past ~6 decades, I could probably buy another Z06!

Fair enough, you seem pretty set on your opinion. Agree to disagree; I as well have a DH Premium Blue Ember, but was highly cross shopping the base corvette stingray. I think it just varies from buyer to buyer, but we'll see over time.

 

[roadpilot]

Fair enough, you seem pretty set on your opinion. Agree to disagree; I as well have a DH Premium Blue Ember, but was highly cross shopping the base corvette stingray. I think it just varies from buyer to buyer, but we'll see over time.

Good conversation. Appreciate it. Stay safe.

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