• Welcome to Mustang7G!

    If you're joining us from Mustang6G, then you may already have an account here!

    As long as you were registered on Mustang6G as of March 10, 2021 or earlier, then you can simply login here with the same username and password!

IceGamer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2021
Threads
15
Messages
433
Reaction score
419
Location
Germany
Vehicle(s)
BMW G20 330d xdrive
That's not accurate. Not fully based on CD6 anymore.
Not based on CD6 at all according to @amk91 ...
You can read several threads where that information is shared. The S650 should have been a CD6 car but James Hackett canceled the whole program. S650 should have been a whole new car with a whole new platform (CD6) but thanks to Hackett S650 will be based again on a (heavily) modified D2C platfom.
Sponsored

 

Gogoggansgo

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2017
Threads
7
Messages
507
Reaction score
211
Location
Midwest
Vehicle(s)
2015 mustang GT
Not based on CD6 at all according to @amk91 ...
You can read several threads where that information is shared. The S650 should have been a CD6 car but James Hackett canceled the whole program. S650 should have been a whole new car with a whole new platform (CD6) but thanks to Hackett S650 will be based again on a (heavily) modified D2C platfom.
first and foremost after fords increase in security at leaks, his info can’t be validated nor mine or anyone else’s period. Let’s just this next gEN car is going to be interesting, because either they’re going to continue with the original plans or be cheap

also the program wasn’t canceled it was sidetracked till Farley took over.Ford pulled a Disney and started a lot of projects over because Hackett did alot of absolutely stupid internal decisions that’s caused a lot problems
 

Hack

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2014
Threads
13
Messages
9,052
Reaction score
374
Location
Minneapolis
Vehicle(s)
Mustang, Camaro
That may be true but look what's happening with its closest rivals. Challenger becomes a pure EV and Camaro dies in '24. Given either of those scenarios, I'll take a warmed over S550 and be thankful we have another generation to enjoy.
I agree 100%.

Something else that I would add to what you are saying is that I think in this case having the platform of the next Mustang be based on the previous Mustang platform is a HUGE WIN compared to having the new Mustang platform be borrowed from a platform designed for big AWD SUVs.

Change is not always progress, unless you are dying for a bigger, heavier car with higher ride height.
 

DeluxeStang

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2021
Threads
14
Messages
999
Reaction score
1,233
Location
Utah
Vehicle(s)
Explorer
you know what is sad about that?
The s550 is just a worked over s197.

so basically the brand new 2024 mustang is still just based on a car from 2005.

bummer.

been hoping for a true new Mustang platform for too long.
I hear ya, but with the sale of sports cars dropping substantially, it's harder to make a business case for a all-new, dedicated platform. Perfecting an existing platform rather than developing a new one from scratch is a damn good way to make an excellent sports car, in a fiscally sustainable manner for the company, while avoiding massive price hikes for your customers. Most sports car teams aren't even given massive budgets to work with in this day and age, so who's to say an all new mustang platform would be better performing? Especially if the team was having to cheap out on engineering everything? I mean, even the s550 base platform was relatively decent, the gt was great, and the higher performance models were legendary. Now ford can take some of what they learned while developing things like the gt350, and apply them to the next gt without breaking the bank. Seems like a win-win to me.
 

DeluxeStang

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2021
Threads
14
Messages
999
Reaction score
1,233
Location
Utah
Vehicle(s)
Explorer
first and foremost after fords increase in security at leaks, his info can’t be validated nor mine or anyone else’s period. Let’s just this next gEN car is going to be interesting, because either they’re going to continue with the original plans or be cheap

also the program wasn’t canceled it was sidetracked till Farley took over.Ford pulled a Disney and started a lot of projects over because Hackett did alot of absolutely stupid internal decisions that’s caused a lot problems
No, multiple ford insiders have come out and said it will use the existing chassis, not cd6. Thank God for that.
 


IceGamer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2021
Threads
15
Messages
433
Reaction score
419
Location
Germany
Vehicle(s)
BMW G20 330d xdrive
I agree 100%.

Something else that I would add to what you are saying is that I think in this case having the platform of the next Mustang be based on the previous Mustang platform is a HUGE WIN compared to having the new Mustang platform be borrowed from a platform designed for big AWD SUVs.

Change is not always progress, unless you are dying for a bigger, heavier car with higher ride height.
I hear ya, but with the sale of sports cars dropping substantially, it's harder to make a business case for a all-new, dedicated platform. Perfecting an existing platform rather than developing a new one from scratch is a damn good way to make an excellent sports car, in a fiscally sustainable manner for the company, while avoiding massive price hikes for your customers. Most sports car teams aren't even given massive budgets to work with in this day and age, so who's to say an all new mustang platform would be better performing? Especially if the team was having to cheap out on engineering everything? I mean, even the s550 base platform was relatively decent, the gt was great, and the higher performance models were legendary. Now ford can take some of what they learned while developing things like the gt350, and apply them to the next gt without breaking the bank. Seems like a win-win to me.
I don't think you guys understand how a platform works... CD6 would’ve been an amazing platform as it would have enabled a lot of features to be added. Just because an SUV is built on a platform doesn’t mean a performance car cannot be built on it… Platforms these days a modular an can handle a huge variety of different cars. It’s not just the body shell that can be varied… suspension, wheelbase, drivetrain…

I would argue that it is a huge downside for the S650 to be built on an updated D2C (witch in and on itself is already 17 years old if it can be considered as a “new” platform after all…). CD6 would’ve given us a completely new Stang by ~2020…
 

9secondko

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2014
Threads
3
Messages
2,381
Reaction score
303
Location
Irvine, ca
Vehicle(s)
2003 cobra
I don't think you guys understand how a platform works... CD6 would’ve been an amazing platform as it would have enabled a lot of features to be added. Just because an SUV is built on a platform doesn’t mean a performance car cannot be built on it… Platforms these days a modular an can handle a huge variety of different cars. It’s not just the body shell that can be varied… suspension, wheelbase, drivetrain…

I would argue that it is a huge downside for the S650 to be built on an updated D2C (witch in and on itself is already 17 years old if it can be considered as a “new” platform after all…). CD6 would’ve given us a completely new Stang by ~2020…
have to agree. The s550 was promised to be something new. Then it turned out to be an s197 rehash.

but we all bought the line that it was ok because Ford saved money to put into the s650. It was even delayed, so we thought more time was being devoted to an honest all new platform.

Instead, we get an already outdated warover again. I’ve been a mustang fan since I was a kid but this is seriously not cool.

Chevy went big with alpha and it paid off wity the car. Just didn’t have the sales or ergonomics.

The mustang had really lagged in early 2000s with the GT getting beat by Hyundai’s at the time. Not cool. That kind of thing is embarrassing.

and now, we have a car that basically nearly 20 years old at its core.

Ford has enough to put so much into the Mach e, they could have really developed the real mustang for future success. But it’s just an afterthought it seems. They know people will buy them so they dont try too hard. Shame.

As a teen and in my 20s snd 30s I hoped the mustang would come out at some point andoutperform everyone. Sort of pull on sports cars what the new vette pulls on super cars. Ford just doesn’t seem interested. It’s frustrating snd s shame.
The s550 outweighed the s197. If the s650 outweighs the 550, it will be very sad.

I have hopes still, buttotally prepared to be let down.
 

DeluxeStang

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2021
Threads
14
Messages
999
Reaction score
1,233
Location
Utah
Vehicle(s)
Explorer
I don't think you guys understand how a platform works... CD6 would’ve been an amazing platform as it would have enabled a lot of features to be added. Just because an SUV is built on a platform doesn’t mean a performance car cannot be built on it… Platforms these days a modular an can handle a huge variety of different cars. It’s not just the body shell that can be varied… suspension, wheelbase, drivetrain…

I would argue that it is a huge downside for the S650 to be built on an updated D2C (witch in and on itself is already 17 years old if it can be considered as a “new” platform after all…). CD6 would’ve given us a completely new Stang by ~2020…
I never said a mustang built on a cd6 architecture couldn't be done, nor did I suggest the cd6 architecture wasn't modular, of course it is. But as it's only been used on 7 seater SUVs, we don't really know just how modular it is. Some platforms have an insanely wide range of vehicle types and sizes they can support, others not so much. I'm just saying an engineering team who wasn't given much money to develop the next gen mustang is going to be better off modifying the existing mustang platform, rather than reengineering another platform to meet mustang standards. The current mustang chassis may be old, but you can't tell, it performs so much better than mustangs from 17 years ago, and the stuff you see and touch shares nothing with older mustangs. So it's not a huge deal, aging platforms bother me when they're things like the current challenger, or 370z, products you know are outdated just by the way they feel and look. The mustang doesn't have that issue for the most part. You also have to consider the s750 or whatever it's called, will almost certainly use a new chassis to support a pure ev drivetrain because it doesn't seem like the s550 chassis was engineered to accommodate an ev powertrain. So we have that to look forward to.
 

IceGamer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2021
Threads
15
Messages
433
Reaction score
419
Location
Germany
Vehicle(s)
BMW G20 330d xdrive
I never said a mustang built on a cd6 architecture couldn't be done, nor did I suggest the cd6 architecture wasn't modular, of course it is. But as it's only been used on 7 seater SUVs, we don't really know just how modular it is. Some platforms have an insanely wide range of vehicle types and sizes they can support, others not so much. I'm just saying an engineering team who wasn't given much money to develop the next gen mustang is going to be better off modifying the existing mustang platform, rather than reengineering another platform to meet mustang standards. The current mustang chassis may be old, but you can't tell, it performs so much better than mustangs from 17 years ago, and the stuff you see and touch shares nothing with older mustangs. So it's not a huge deal, aging platforms bother me when they're things like the current challenger, or 370z, products you know are outdated just by the way they feel and look. The mustang doesn't have that issue for the most part. You also have to consider the s750 or whatever it's called, will almost certainly use a new chassis to support a pure ev drivetrain because it doesn't seem like the s550 chassis was engineered to accommodate an ev powertrain. So we have that to look forward to.
You are right and I think that Ford did a reasonable job on updating D2C but I do think that it feels old. Yes, it drives well but apart from that everything else feels outdated. 0-60 is ridiculously slow for a 450hp car, it is quite heavy and they couldn’t even find a way to install both, lane assist and electric side mirrors as the structure wasn’t built for so much tech. The interior and the tech used in it felt old right from the beginning. It is not a tech-driven car but for 60K I do expect some standards… Fords tries to cheap out on everything and I don’t expect BMW or Mercedes like tech in a Ford but 60K is a lot of money and a base M4 can be bought for less than 70K, at least here in Germany…

I think updating D2C in order to manage modern technologies such as hybrid and other stuff is not an easy job. Besides, I don’t think that they reduce the weight as I don’t expect them to switch to an aluminum body. So we either get a heavy car that can handle certain technologies or we get an even heavier S650 that does it all. Either way a “lightweight” S650 with modern standards seems unreasonable at this point but I hope I’m wrong ;)
 

Mazman

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2017
Threads
5
Messages
1,091
Reaction score
372
Location
Sweden
Website
youtube.com
Vehicle(s)
Mazda MX5 ND2 30th anniversary
You are right and I think that Ford did a reasonable job on updating D2C but I do think that it feels old. Yes, it drives well but apart from that everything else feels outdated. 0-60 is ridiculously slow for a 450hp car, it is quite heavy and they couldn’t even find a way to install both, lane assist and electric side mirrors as the structure wasn’t built for so much tech. The interior and the tech used in it felt old right from the beginning. It is not a tech-driven car but for 60K I do expect some standards… Fords tries to cheap out on everything and I don’t expect BMW or Mercedes like tech in a Ford but 60K is a lot of money and a base M4 can be bought for less than 70K, at least here in Germany…

I think updating D2C in order to manage modern technologies such as hybrid and other stuff is not an easy job. Besides, I don’t think that they reduce the weight as I don’t expect them to switch to an aluminum body. So we either get a heavy car that can handle certain technologies or we get an even heavier S650 that does it all. Either way a “lightweight” S650 with modern standards seems unreasonable at this point but I hope I’m wrong ;)
Not sure if it is ridiculously slow
My EU spec 18 GT, with 305s on the rear though, on the street. Check the climb as well :)
But yes it would have been nice with a new platform
S650 Mustang First Video! S650 Mustang GT prototype looks & sounds in motion 9AB7F716-F076-4201-A879-13A0E24B2447
 

DeluxeStang

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2021
Threads
14
Messages
999
Reaction score
1,233
Location
Utah
Vehicle(s)
Explorer
You are right and I think that Ford did a reasonable job on updating D2C but I do think that it feels old. Yes, it drives well but apart from that everything else feels outdated. 0-60 is ridiculously slow for a 450hp car, it is quite heavy and they couldn’t even find a way to install both, lane assist and electric side mirrors as the structure wasn’t built for so much tech. The interior and the tech used in it felt old right from the beginning. It is not a tech-driven car but for 60K I do expect some standards… Fords tries to cheap out on everything and I don’t expect BMW or Mercedes like tech in a Ford but 60K is a lot of money and a base M4 can be bought for less than 70K, at least here in Germany…

I think updating D2C in order to manage modern technologies such as hybrid and other stuff is not an easy job. Besides, I don’t think that they reduce the weight as I don’t expect them to switch to an aluminum body. So we either get a heavy car that can handle certain technologies or we get an even heavier S650 that does it all. Either way a “lightweight” S650 with modern standards seems unreasonable at this point but I hope I’m wrong ;)
You have valid points, that being said, the 0-60 on the gt with the 10 speed is like 3.9 seconds, maybe mid 4s if you get a manual. That's pretty fast. But those import taxes are killer, if mustang gts start at around 60k in Germany, thats a shame. They're in the mid 30s to low 40s in the U.S. Although I wouldn't expect huge weight savings, who knows, ford could give the s650 a mixture of alliminum and composite body panels. I know Ford has experimented a lot with composite materials to save weight, seems like you would want to apply that to the next gen mustang.
 

IceGamer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2021
Threads
15
Messages
433
Reaction score
419
Location
Germany
Vehicle(s)
BMW G20 330d xdrive
Not sure if it is ridiculously slow
My EU spec 18 GT, with 305s on the rear though, on the street. Check the climb as well :)
But yes it would have been nice with a new platform
9AB7F716-F076-4201-A879-13A0E24B2447.jpeg
Compared to old cars that is a reasonable time. Compared to modern cars that's slow and I'm not talking EV's...

According to https://www.zeroto60times.com/vehicle-make/bmw-0-60-mph-times/

A GT with PP2 does 0-60 in about 4.2 seconds, a Bullit in 4.3 or 4.4 seconds. That is a 2+2 seater with 460+ HP.

A 2019 BMW M340i (sedan) does the 0-60 in 3.8 seconds and has about ~380hp...

So yeah, 4.4 seconds 0-100 is fairly slow for a 450hp car although I don't care about those numbers all that much. It's still a 'GT' after all 😉
 

Mazman

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2017
Threads
5
Messages
1,091
Reaction score
372
Location
Sweden
Website
youtube.com
Vehicle(s)
Mazda MX5 ND2 30th anniversary
Compared to old cars that is a reasonable time. Compared to modern cars that's slow and I'm not talking EV's...

According to https://www.zeroto60times.com/vehicle-make/bmw-0-60-mph-times/

A GT with PP2 does 0-60 in about 4.2 seconds, a Bullit in 4.3 or 4.4 seconds. That is a 2+2 seater with 460+ HP.

A 2019 BMW M340i (sedan) does the 0-60 in 3.8 seconds and has about ~380hp...

So yeah, 4.4 seconds 0-100 is fairly slow for a 450hp car although I don't care about those numbers all that much. It's still a 'GT' after all 😉
I don’t know if you are comparing a X-drive 340i and also if that time was on a prepped strip or not.

also if it is a US magazine they almost always use a 1ft roll out. The same run mine did 0-60 with 1ft in 4.06s on the street.

0-60/62 is not a good comparison in my opinion 402m is or 100-200km/h(mine did it in 9.1s) etc

this is a slip from a M1 HP with the A10 posted on FB yesterday, much quicker than any(stock) M340i I have seen. The low trap speed is most likely due to the Cup2s and aero. I trapped around 118-119mph with mine which is ~3-4mph more than e.g a m340i which is quite a lot in a 402 run. Pretty good for a 47k EUR car (what I paid for mine). Prices have increased a bit unfortunately due to regulations and such :(. I have an MX5 and an ID3 now so anything is faster :D

so speaking of power it is quite sufficient as such for a street car, also yet to see a BMW dyno that actually does not have more power than the quoted numbers from factory
S650 Mustang First Video! S650 Mustang GT prototype looks & sounds in motion 1644912810669


but let’s leave it at that
 
Last edited:

IceGamer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2021
Threads
15
Messages
433
Reaction score
419
Location
Germany
Vehicle(s)
BMW G20 330d xdrive
I don’t know if you are comparing a X-drive 340i and also if that time was on a prepped strip or not.

also if it is a US magazine they almost always use a 1ft roll out. The same run mine did 0-60 with 1ft in 4.06s on the street.

0-60/62 is not a good comparison in my opinion 402m is or 100-200km/h(mine did it in 9.1s) etc

this is a slip from a M1 HP with the A10 posted on FB yesterday, much quicker than any(stock) M340i I have seen. The low trap speed is most likely due to the Cup2s and aero. I trapped around 118-119mph with mine which is ~3-4mph more than e.g a m340i which is quite a lot in a 402 run. Pretty good for a 47k EUR car (what I paid for mine). Prices have increased a bit unfortunately due to regulations and such :(. I have an MX5 and an ID3 now so anything is faster :D

so speaking of power it is quite sufficient as such for a street car, also yet to see a BMW dyno that actually does not have more power than the quoted numbers from factory
1644912810669.png


but let’s leave it at that
The M340i always has xdrive as every sporty car should have that cares about performance. RWD is not competitive unless you have some prepped surfaces and such. So let’s stick to the real world. The page I quoted was just one out of several that have similar results: A M340i beats a Mustang GT 0-60 or 0-100 without that one foot rollout or whatever and that was my whole point. A ~370hp family sedan beats a 450-460hp Mustang GT.
To be fair – yes, the M340i has AWD and a superior transmission. Besides, the quoted ~370hp are more likely close to 390+ hp as BMW gives out quite pessimistic numbers but nonetheless, mid 4 seconds aren’t all that amazing for 450+hp in 2022…

I would take the M340i as a daily any given day but if we talk about driving experience and entertainment it isn’t even close. The S550 is a great car, it’s just getting old in some areas where it did shine before. The old F80 BMW M3 did 0-100 in ~4.3 seconds and now the M340i does it. An M3 isn’t slow, 4.3 seconds isn’t slow but tech has evolved tremendously in the last 5-8 years and it’s time for something new. That can be achieved by a heavily updated D2C or could’ve been achieved by a new platform… Who knows?

I just hope that the S650 will be available in the EU as a V8. I don’t care as much about 0-100 or some crazy lap times. If we get the V8 it’ll have plenty of power ;-)
 

Hack

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2014
Threads
13
Messages
9,052
Reaction score
374
Location
Minneapolis
Vehicle(s)
Mustang, Camaro
I don't think you guys understand how a platform works... CD6 would’ve been an amazing platform as it would have enabled a lot of features to be added. Just because an SUV is built on a platform doesn’t mean a performance car cannot be built on it… Platforms these days a modular an can handle a huge variety of different cars. It’s not just the body shell that can be varied… suspension, wheelbase, drivetrain…

I would argue that it is a huge downside for the S650 to be built on an updated D2C (witch in and on itself is already 17 years old if it can be considered as a “new” platform after all…). CD6 would’ve given us a completely new Stang by ~2020…
I think I understand how a platform works. You seem intelligent - I'm sure you realize you're making two contradicting arguments:
1. We need the new platform because the old one isn't good enough.
2. Platforms are really flexible and can be changed to do whatever is necessary to make a good performing vehicle.

You are right and I think that Ford did a reasonable job on updating D2C but I do think that it feels old. Yes, it drives well but apart from that everything else feels outdated. 0-60 is ridiculously slow for a 450hp car, it is quite heavy and they couldn’t even find a way to install both, lane assist and electric side mirrors as the structure wasn’t built for so much tech. The interior and the tech used in it felt old right from the beginning. It is not a tech-driven car but for 60K I do expect some standards… Fords tries to cheap out on everything and I don’t expect BMW or Mercedes like tech in a Ford but 60K is a lot of money and a base M4 can be bought for less than 70K, at least here in Germany…

I think updating D2C in order to manage modern technologies such as hybrid and other stuff is not an easy job. Besides, I don’t think that they reduce the weight as I don’t expect them to switch to an aluminum body. So we either get a heavy car that can handle certain technologies or we get an even heavier S650 that does it all. Either way a “lightweight” S650 with modern standards seems unreasonable at this point but I hope I’m wrong ;)
I don't think the S550 is ridiculously slow. It's competitive with other cars in its class.

Having said that, I 100% agree with the spirit of what you are saying. I would like to see the next generation Mustang perform better than the current one. I think the most likely way for that to happen is the car gets a little smaller and lighter. I doubt Ford is going away from the 5.0 engine size and I don't think they will improve the power output of the 5.0 much if at all.

I'd absolutely love to see a transaxle on the Mustang. That would be another way to really improve performance. I just don't see Ford spending the money to do it.

Most likely with the state of the Challenger and Camaro, the next gen Mustang will be a styling change primarily with possibly some interior features thrown in. Yawn. I really hope that doesn't happen.
Sponsored

 
 




Top