265/285 width tires on stock PP wheels?

[Junkyard Dog]

Just for the sake of a fuller provision of information, here is the link to the All Season 4
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/michelin-pilot-sport-all-season-4

As you can see for yourself, there are no warnings whatsoever regarding temperature, and certainly not the warning I posted above for the PS4S that you attribute to this all season tire with no basis in fact. In fact, it clearly states that you can drive it in light snow and talks about its design enhancing snow performance. "The Pilot Sport All Season 4 employs Michelin's Helio Technology, which is derived from sunflower oil. This sustainable and biodegradable material helps the tread maintain its flexibility at lower temperatures, ensuring the Pilot Sport All Season 4's capabilities, even in colder climates."

It is a 540 tread wear, as compared to the PS4S 300 tread wear.

In closing, I do not think there is any such thing as a Michelin Pilot Sport All Season 4S, but please feel free to disabuse me of that notion (not with AI results or Google or discussion forums, though. Use something real, please). Since both of you posted about them, and wesg79 even said he has them on his car, this should be easy for him. wesg79 can simply post a picture of the sidewall.

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[Junkyard Dog]

And nowhere have I suggested that anybody in Ontario should run PS4S tires in Ontario in January. That would be retarded. Posting it in response to what I wrote is a straw man fallacy.

And here is what I posted to the original poster:

PS4S are great tires and grippy for a regular road type tire, and they will perform well in the winter if you do not live somewhere very cold (ugh, scratch that, I just saw you live in New York - you probably need a winter tire!)

Relevant part bolded.

 

[wesg79]

the PS4S is summer only tire, the PS4 AS is the all season vaiant.

perhaps as the other guy mentioned you thought the PS4S mean 4 season? or was the all season?

 

[Junkyard Dog]

the PS4S is summer only tire, the PS4 AS is the all season variant.

Correct.

perhaps as the other guy mentioned you thought the PS4S mean 4 season? or was the all season?

Negative. As I said above, I posted the link. Try it out and stop just repeating this over and over without progressing in knowledge or letting the discussion go anywhere. The temperature warning is for -7° Celsius (19.4° or 20° Fahrenheit), as I stated, not 45° Fahrenheit (7° Celsius).

I did not just make it up. I am not relying upon AI or folks posting sourceless claims on discussion forums.

More importantly, you do not have to rely upon me or my claim.
Since I provided the link, you can just click it and read for yourself. Maybe my link is bad information, and you can prove it. Or maybe it is good information. <--- You win either way if you just go there and read.

 

[wesg79]

Did you read the link you posted and referred too?
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/michelin-pilot-sport-4s

0C is freezing....
+7 C the compound will get harder, the closer to 0 you get the more like a hockey pucky the tires become, the ps4s also have no siping needed for snow and ice.
parked or stored tires below -7C need to be brought back up to temp (+5c or more) before being driven on to prevent cracking as they flex, you also get alot into chipping on fozen summer compounds.

Spent 10 years working for a company producing rubber gum for Michelin, Bridgstone and others, the cold durometer testing on compoounds between summer only and all weather/snow compound is quite alot just from 0C to -20C



==============
The Pilot Sport 4S excels in warm dry and wet conditions, so like all Max Performance Summer tires, is not intended to be serviced, stored nor driven in near- and below-freezing temperatures, through snow or on ice.

Note: Tires exposed to temperatures of 20 degrees F (-7 degrees C) or lower must be permitted to gradually return to temperatures of at least 40 degrees F (5 degrees C) for at least 24 hours before they are flexed in any manner, such as by adjusting inflation pressures, mounting them on wheels or using them to support, roll or drive a vehicle.

Flexing of the specialized rubber compounds used in Max Performance Summer tires during cold-weather use can result in irreversible compound cracking. Compound cracking is not a warrantable condition because it occurs as the result of improper use or storage, tires exhibiting compound cracking must be replaced.

=================

 

[Junkyard Dog]

Read it and quoted the relevant parts, yes. I feel like at this point I am still repeating things from pages ago.

I did not recommend it as a snow tire, or for you to drive in Ontario in January.

I merely corrected your 7° Celsius claim with -7°, which you have now quoted, so I assume we are on the same page, finally.

AND to be clear, I am not recommending it to the OP, since I see he lives in NY, but I posted that and already quoted it (reposted it), so, for the third time, I am not recommending the 4S for cold winters.

I have driven them through Georgia winters and not experienced any cracking issues or any other problems. I have also used the All Seasons.

 

[AZ_Ryan]

I honestly have no clue why the two of you posted this, or why you think this confusion for all seasons is the case.

I posted the quote, in boldface type, but, more importantly, I provided a link in my post. Click it, and you will see that it is not an all season tire. wesg79 can even compare the tread in the picture to the video comparison he posted.

Because PS4 summer tires aren't rated for temps below 40⁰ (might actually. be 50⁰), and I thought you were suggesting the PS4 all season tire. Sorry if I misunderstood.

 

[wesg79]

Because PS4 summer tires aren't rated for temps below 40⁰ (might acttires. be 50⁰), and I thought you were suggesting the PS4 all season tire. Sorry if I misunderstood.

Assuming thats all it is, confusion on the naming

PS4S is summer (not for snow or cold)
PS4 AS is all season, temps dont matter

 

[Junkyard Dog]

Because PS4 summer tires aren't rated for temps below 40⁰ (might actually. be 50⁰), and I thought you were suggesting the PS4 all season tire. Sorry if I misunderstood.

The cracking issue comes up "when exposed to temperatures of 20 degrees Fahrenheit . . . or lower," see bottom two arrows that wesg79 drew.

Nowhere does it give any other rating like 40 degrees, much less "might actually be 50."

There is a statement of intention about snow, ice, and "temperatures near - or below - freezing." That is sort of a "duh" statement. Nobody is recommending them as intended for that purpose.

Assuming thats all it is, confusion on the naming

PS4S is summer (not for snow or cold)
PS4 AS is all season, temps dont matter

That is not all. They also have ZP versions of the All Season 4 and 4S, an all season 4+ ZP version, two SUV Pilot Sport 4 tires (that is nine different tires right there called some form of Pilot Sport with 4 in the title), and then lots of other similar names with 4 in them. It is not as confusing as their Cup 2, with several versions, two of which have the same name but drastically different tread wear ratings and different tread depths. The Pilot Sport name is used across their entire series of racing tires, as well, I counted at least 11 slicks plus four Pilot Sport rain tires for the racetrack.

 

[AZ_Ryan]

The cracking issue comes up "when exposed to temperatures of 20 degrees Fahrenheit . . . or lower," see bottom two arrows that wesg79 drew.

Nowhere does it give any other rating like 40 degrees, much less "might actually be 50."

There is a statement of intention about snow, ice, and "temperatures near - or below - freezing." That is sort of a "duh" statement. Nobody is recommending them as intended for that purpose.



That is not all. They also have ZP versions of the All Season 4 and 4S, an all season 4+ ZP version, two SUV Pilot Sport 4 tires (that is nine different tires right there called some form of Pilot Sport with 4 in the title), and then lots of other similar names with 4 in them. It is not as confusing as their Cup 2, with several versions, two of which have the same name but drastically different tread wear ratings and different tread depths. The Pilot Sport name is used across their entire series of racing tires, as well, I counted at least 11 slicks plus four Pilot Sport rain tires for the racetrack.

Sorry man, but i just dont follow where you are going with this. Summer Tires definitely have a temperature restriction. I know from personal experience. They get hard and dont grip, and can be really f***ing dangerous in low temps. Are you disputing that?

 

[Junkyard Dog]

Sorry man, but i just dont follow where you are going with this. Summer Tires definitely have a temperature restriction. I know from personal experience. They get hard and dont grip, and can be really f***ing dangerous in low temps. Are you disputing that?

Yes.

 

[Junkyard Dog]

Well, at least with Michelin PS4s, which I have used for years, but have never experienced slippery, dangerous conditions in the winter as you describe. I also live in Georgia, so it is nothing like the experience of some others here posting in the thread, although it was 27° early this morning when I went to the gym - I took my wife's Explorer ST instead of my Dark Horse, which still wears its Trofeo RS tires. I have also never driven the PS4s in snow, but I have driven other Michelins in snow, I think before the 4S was invented or before I was aware of it. Unfortunately, I was not all that knowledgeable about tires back then, and, apart from the fact that they were Michelin, I do not remember which ones were on it. The only possibilities are 4S, A/S 3, and PS SS, as these are the only tires I have used from Michelin, and both the SS and the A/S 3 were used only once.

I do not have experience with other Max Performance Summer tires except the Pilot Super Sport, which I abandoned after one tire life because it was too dangerous in heavy rain - if memory serves that was when I went to the A/S 3.

So it is most likely (not 100% certain) that I used the Pilot Super Sport in the snow when the tires were really new with full tread depth, drove over 50 miles to work in 2017. They did ok, but my car was AWD and antilock brakes and whatever else Audi puts in its cars back then.

Accordingly, I dispute the "they" part of your statement, but I am not contesting whatever your personal experience was with whatever Summer Tires you know from personal experience. I am just stating my own experience, limited only to certain tires.

 

[Junkyard Dog]

But, again, if I lived in New York, or, gasp, Ontario, I would use winter tires or snow tires and certainly not Michelin Pilot Sport 4s tires.

But I don't live in those places.

Snow is a very irregular occurrence here, and I really do not have to drive in it with extremely rare exceptions. Even this morning's temperature is a rare occurrence. The Weather Channel tells me it will be in the 40s tomorrow morning.

 

[Junkyard Dog]

I also wanted to thank you and wesg79 for being respectful during this discussion.

That behavior is rare these days on discussion forums and the internet more generally.

Sincerely, I appreciate it.

 

[Junkyard Dog]

And one more piece of information just to add to the above discussion.

The link I posted was to Tire Rack. I could not find information directly from Michelin. I had assumed that Tire Rack gets the information directly from Michelin, but I do not know that. It is merely an assumption. I discovered this morning when looking at an unrelated tire on Tire Rack, that is, not a Michelin, the exact same language that you and wesg79 were relying upon,

"The Pilot Sport 4S excels in warm dry and wet conditions, so like all Max Performance Summer tires, is not intended to be serviced, stored nor driven in near- and below-freezing temperatures, through snow or on ice."​

Of course, the other tire description did not say "Pilot Sport 4S," but the rest of the language was word for word the same, complete with the two hyphens. As a result, I conclude that this is a general warning that Tire Rack provides and is neither a manufacturer statement nor a specific warning tailored to the 4S tire in particular. Finding it on another tire rules out this statement coming from Michelin.

The other language with specific temperatures sure reads like it must come from the manufacturer, but I have not been able to verify that.

So . . . give the information whatever importance you think it deserves based on your own research.

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