OTA Update - HOW Does Ford Do This? - Over Cellular / Wifi ?

[armyGT]

Ok boys!!!

Correct! This is a site to share ideas and get the best info that's out there from people who love their cars. The S-650 has both great and not do great features. We need to talk about both, sadly.

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[rugedraw]

OTA means Over The Air.

Over what air?

Cellular?

Wi-Fi?

I am asking because I live out in the country. Cell service is a no go. Wi-fi is iffy to no go in my driveway. How is my Dark Horse going to get the update?

For example, I have learned to put the address into Waze on my cell phone while I am still standing inside the house, or it will not work for 2.5 miles in one direction or about 12 miles in another. No cell service. The wi-fi is not strong enough for me to sit in my car and then put the address into my cell phone.

Is my Dark Horse not going to be updated?

100% of OTAs where firmware needs to be updated come in through cellular. In Ford's PTS website, you can view the OTA dashboard of a vehicle and one of the bits of info is if the OTA requires wifi or not. I have been following Ford's OTA process very diligently since the first F150 and Mach E's with OTA capability came out in 2020, and this has been the case since then. The only OTAs that will say wifi required a configuration only updates where no files are downloaded and only the config is changed within a module to fix an issue.

Below is a screenshot of the OTA dashboard of an F150 that has a healthy recent OTA history. This truck received 9 updates between June and today and not one said wifi is required. That I know of, there have only been a total of 4 updates that require wifi to install. 2 of these are exclusive the the F150, one is exclusive to vehicles equipped with Bluecruise, and the other one was to fix an issue affecting all vehicles where a TCU update changes the country code from the US to another country rendering the modem useless. It could only be fixed via wifi (or FORScan) since the modem went offline. This TCU update was sent out before the S650 Mustang existed, so it was not and will not be sent to these cars since it will never be affected by this problem.

 

[Linwei]

So when you say wifi not required, it does not exclude that it can be done on Wifi only, right?

I am asking because I have a US Spec 2024 in Dubai and of course the TCU cannot connect, although the upload and download arrows are shown on the screen.

I am wondering if anyone has managed to reconfigure the eSIM Profile?

 

[Gregs24]

So when you say wifi not required, it does not exclude that it can be done on Wifi only, right?

I am asking because I have a US Spec 2024 in Dubai and of course the TCU cannot connect, although the upload and download arrows are shown on the screen.

I am wondering if anyone has managed to reconfigure the eSIM Profile?

I think somebody did try to reconfigure a US car in Europe but it may be a waste of time as Ford do not support OTA updates in all countries

 

[Skye]

I am wondering if anyone has managed to reconfigure the eSIM Profile?

That raises a lot of interesting questions.

With respect to OTA updates, It's akin to purchasing a US cell phone, then re-designing it physically and logically to support the other country it will be used in.

Looking at the radio frequency certification labels in the Owners Manual, the S650 is certified to operate in the U.A.E., but that assumes the vehicle being handled was built as an export vehicle for the U.A.E. or that region. So the physical aspects to make a change would involve anything in dealing with the frequencies in use. Cellular receivers, maybe the Accessory Protocol Interface Module, at a minimum.

Initial information I could find through general searches was limited to a handful of posts and threads. Even if the physical changes were made, OTA in the U.A.E. seems doubtful, for now.

Pivoting to the logical, different features have different specifications, to support the country the vehicle will operate in. My initial thought would be to visit the dealer once a year or so. But they'd have a U.A.E. build, not necessarily a US build. It's something that'd have to be discussed with that dealer and raises several more questions still, as in, "Does Ford allow regions to download or access software intended for others (U.A.E. seeking US)? I'd say no.

I don't believe Ford or the dealer would be prepared, or welcome, to dealing with these issues. For example, the dealer does get a copy of a US build, installs it, with Lane Assist going to freakout mode and causing an accident. Or warranty work (parts, guides for that region, specialty tools) on vehicles built in other countries. Stuff like that.

You are not alone. Occasionally I read of a Mustang Owner in the EU encountering the same: a US-spec vehicle needing attention, while all the support is geared to the EU models. It ultimately goes to building confidence in that, whatever methods and tools are used, Ford and the dealer consider those certified and good, to remove them of all liabilities.

Edit,

That's not to say there's 0 support for anything.

General maintenance: I'm not to concerned about that. Maybe a bit more pre-thinking or leaning forward.

Physical repairs, while challenging, could be attained. It'd depend on the country and issue needing attention. A good mechanic, parts and information downloaded from the following.

https://www.motorcraftservice.com/

 

[Zig]

That raises a lot of interesting questions.

With respect to OTA updates, It's akin to purchasing a US cell phone, then re-designing it physically and logically to support the other country it will be used in.

Looking at the radio frequency certification labels in the Owners Manual, the S650 is certified to operate in the U.A.E., but that assumes the vehicle being handled was built as an export vehicle for the U.A.E. or that region. So the physical aspects to make a change would involve anything in dealing with the frequencies in use. Cellular receivers, maybe the Accessory Protocol Interface Module, at a minimum.

Initial information I could find through general searches was limited to a handful of posts and threads. Even if the physical changes were made, OTA in the U.A.E. seems doubtful, for now.

Pivoting to the logical, different features have different specifications, to support the country the vehicle will operate in. My initial thought would be to visit the dealer once a year or so. But they'd have a U.A.E. build, not necessarily a US build. It's something that'd have to be discussed with that dealer and raises several more questions still, as in, "Does Ford allow regions to download or access software intended for others (U.A.E. seeking US)? I'd say no.

I don't believe Ford or the dealer would be prepared, or welcome, to dealing with these issues. For example, the dealer does get a copy of a US build, installs it, with Lane Assist going to freakout mode and causing an accident. Or warranty work (parts, guides for that region, specialty tools) on vehicles built in other countries. Stuff like that.

You are not alone. Occasionally I read of a Mustang Owner in the EU encountering the same: a US-spec vehicle needing attention, while all the support is geared to the EU models. It ultimately goes to building confidence in that, whatever methods and tools are used, Ford and the dealer consider those certified and good, to remove them of all liabilities.

Edit,

That's not to say there's 0 support for anything.

General maintenance: I'm not to concerned about that. Maybe a bit more pre-thinking or leaning forward.

Physical repairs, while challenging, could be attained. It'd depend on the country and issue needing attention. A good mechanic, parts and information downloaded from the following.

https://www.motorcraftservice.com/

Cell phones wander why can’t cars? Other than the left side right side driving assistance software but then again if the user is sitting on the wrong side the car won’t really care.

 

[Skye]

Cell phones wander why can’t cars?

A few things are required to make that happen:

The physical bits need to be designed to operate within a band or range of frequencies and power levels used in that country. The vehicle needs to recognize where it is, so it can adapt, if necessary.

The company selling that device has to certify to that country's spectrum and licensing managers the device will work and play well with others. While Ford has a "radio certification label" to operate in the U.A.E. (or other country), IDK what that involves. Wi-fi? Cell? BLIS?

When driving by a local hospital or airport, the OTA update being received can't interfere with other devices and systems. Certification can be expensive. The EU is a big market working on something of a common standard. Other countries? It can be time consuming and cost-prohibitive.

And there's still the issue of support. A dealer in another country won't be open to embracing a vehicle made elsewhere. The OTA update didn't go as planned with US car now in Argentina. How many dealers are prepared to help with that? Same as if someone from that country was attempting to get warranty service in the US. The pathway is messy, if it exists at all.

 

[Zig]

A few things are required to make that happen:

The physical bits need to be designed to operate within a band or range of frequencies and power levels used in that country. The vehicle needs to recognize where it is, so it can adapt, if necessary.

The company selling that device has to certify to that country's spectrum and licensing managers the device will work and play well with others. While Ford has a "radio certification label" to operate in the U.A.E. (or other country), IDK what that involves. Wi-fi? Cell? BLIS?

When driving by a local hospital or airport, the OTA update being received can't interfere with other devices and systems. Certification can be expensive. The EU is a big market working on something of a common standard. Other countries? It can be time consuming and cost-prohibitive.

And there's still the issue of support. A dealer in another country won't be open to embracing a vehicle made elsewhere. The OTA update didn't go as planned with US car now in Argentina. How many dealers are prepared to help with that? Same as if someone from that country was attempting to get warranty service in the US. The pathway is messy, if it exists at all.

If ota is strictly cellular does gsm resolve connectivity while roaming?

 

[Gregs24]

If ota is strictly cellular does gsm resolve connectivity while roaming?

The TCU is different on US market cars to other parts of the world such as Europe.

It isn't just the frequency it is hard programmed to a carrier which will not be there if it isn't in the correct country. Some countries do not have any OTA update facilities at all. There are other significant differences such as the APIM which is region specific.

You would need to obtain a local TCU and hope it worked with the APIM you have but chances are the nav would not work - it would be far from easy, if even possible. You may also do all that and then discover OTA updates are not available in Dubai anyway.

Roaming mobiles relies on reciprocal agreements between carriers in different countries which doesn't apply in this case.

 

[Zig]

The TCU is different on US market cars to other parts of the world such as Europe.

It isn't just the frequency it is hard programmed to a carrier which will not be there if it isn't in the correct country. Some countries do not have any OTA update facilities at all. There are other significant differences such as the APIM which is region specific.

You would need to obtain a local TCU and hope it worked with the APIM you have but chances are the nav would not work - it would be far from easy, if even possible. You may also do all that and then discover OTA updates are not available in Dubai anyway.

Roaming mobiles relies on reciprocal agreements between carriers in different countries which doesn't apply in this case.

In other words, instead of leveraging the wheel that is they invented a new one?

 

[DarkMatterGrey]

You may think this isn't possible but keep in mind...anything is possible. We live in some crazy times where data is king.
Don't think the powers to be love you. Keep in mind that one election can put you in an electric Mustang.
Trust but verify!

That’s part of the reason why I bought v8 Mustang for me and dodge v8 hemi Durango for my wife. At the time (a year and a year and a half ago) I thought that this would be our last chance to be a vehicle with an ICE engine.

 

[Gregs24]

In other words, instead of leveraging the wheel that is they invented a new one?

Not really. European Mustangs are really quite different to US Mustangs and very few people would bring a US car to Europe when you can buy it officially in Europe anyway. Our roads and markings are different, our road signs are different, we even have different headrests and door mirrors! Simpler to build a European spec that works in the Europe and US spec that works in the US rather than trying to have a global spec (which isn't possible)

 

[Zig]

Not really. European Mustangs are really quite different to US Mustangs and very few people would bring a US car to Europe when you can buy it officially in Europe anyway. Our roads and markings are different, our road signs are different, we even have different headrests and door mirrors! Simpler to build a European spec that works in the Europe and US spec that works in the US rather than trying to have a global spec (which isn't possible)

That’s the cool thing about math, it still adds up no matter the language spoken.

as in, digital is binary and really doesn’t care. A modem is what it used to call home, eSim is a thing and hardware shouldn’t care where in the world one finds self. Long distance is just another hop on the router.

 

[Gregs24]

That’s the cool thing about math, it still adds up no matter the language spoken.

as in, digital is binary and really doesn’t care. A modem is what it used to call home, eSim is a thing and hardware shouldn’t care where in the world one finds self. Long distance is just another hop on the router.

Simple in your head doesn't mean simple in reality. You clearly don't understand how the system works or why - don't waste any more time trying to 'figure it out' or suggesting how simple it should be. It is the way it is for very good reasons even if you don't like or understand them.

 

[rugedraw]

So when you say wifi not required, it does not exclude that it can be done on Wifi only, right?

I am asking because I have a US Spec 2024 in Dubai and of course the TCU cannot connect, although the upload and download arrows are shown on the screen.

I am wondering if anyone has managed to reconfigure the eSIM Profile?

OTA's will not work without reprogramming the TCU. I have tried to get it to work with vehicles in the UAE with no luck. Changing the country code alone is not enough. I also know how to simulate the procedure FDRS uses to provision a TCU using FORScan, and that does not work, either. I do not know how how to do it, but it can be done. There is a member here that does it, but I don't remember his user name. He programs the TCU on a bench it seems since he requires for you to mail the TCU to him.

Swapping a TCU from a vehicle in your country is NOT the correct way to do it. Even if it gets connectivity working, the part number of the TCU will not match what Ford has on it's servers, so when it comes time to send an OTA update to the TCU, it will fail because the files the mothership wants to send to the vehicle won't match the hardware that is on the car. This will create a bottle-neck effect for future updates, since the APIM, TCU and GWM are updated in sequence.

If anyone imports a vehicle to a country where Ford offers OTA support and connectivity, I would highly recommend that you find someone who can properly program the existing TCU for said country and DO NOT swap in a TCU unless the part number is exactly the same and you have FDRS or a way to program the TCU's software to whatever it should be based on the software state of the other Sync related modules in the vehicle.

Edit: This is all based on my understanding of how these things work from people who know a lot more about this stuff than I do. If you feel like this is inaccurate, I am not going to defend my position on this. You guys can do whatever you want; it won't change my opinion or my advice.

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