Where does the 'brand' go from here?

[BoostRabbitGT]

what exactly does "mainstream" mean, and why is it mutually exclusive from being "premium"?

When I think premium, I think back to the '90s when Chrysler/Dodge/Plymouth and Ford/Lincoln/Mercury were a thing (I want to say the closest thing we have to this today is Buick/Cadillac/Chevrolet). For this example, Ford is the affordable/mainstream brand, Mercury would've been premium, and Lincoln is the luxury brand.

Maybe "mainstream" wasn't the correct word to use---I probably should've used "affordable" instead---for my Mustang analogy: I don't think the build quality is good enough for me to consider it an upmarket/premium product (definitely not a luxury one for sure), and the pricing strategy is not (in my opinion) favorable enough to be considered an affordable sports car as much as it was maybe 5-10+ years ago.

I like this idea. It actually makes sense with the whole “take on Porsche” idea but at an affordable level. Make the escort basically a import fighter. Maybe add AWD.

For sure. A modern day Escort RS Cosworth would be wild. They need to figure out how to make the 2.3L EcoBoost sound better though (if that's even possible)---I don't know how many times I've been told my car sounds like a lawnmower on startup.

I like the way you think. Originally, I was thinking Ford should use c2 as a platform base for this, which is a super flexible, and generally well received platform that underpins the ton of models, the downside is C2 is FWD or AWD, not sure mustang fans will accept it.

That being said, there's also this new affordable EV platform designed to be used on vehicles starting at 25-30k. We're hearing now some of those vehicles will be RWD, and be about as fast as a mustang Ecoboost, and have a really low center of gravity, and really good aero because it was done by F1 teams. I kinda want to see a mustang foxbody inspired affordable hatchback on that platform, it's even better than c2 it seems, and you'd be able to keep this mustang hatchback RWD.

I'm not terribly familiar with platforms, but if they were theoretically to use C2 as a base, I think you could have a very distinct FWD/AWD Mustang variant (if not named something else entirely) that doesn't compete with OG Mustang's sales. Not sure if you'd put the 5.0 in this vehicle though, especially not for the FWD version. Maybe the 2.3? Or whatever powered the last-gen Euro-model Fiesta ST?

Sponsored

 

[DeluxeStang]

I'm not terribly familiar with platforms, but if they were theoretically to use C2 as a base, I think you could have a very distinct FWD/AWD Mustang variant (if not named something else entirely) that doesn't compete with OG Mustang's sales. Not sure if you'd put the 5.0 in this vehicle though, especially not for the FWD version. Maybe the 2.3? Or whatever powered the last-gen Euro-model Fiesta ST?

So c2 is the platform used on the current overseas focus and fusion that we don't get here, as well as the Lincoln zephyr sedan, maverick, bronco sport, escape, evos, and Lincoln Corsair. Super flexible platform. You're right, a mustang using C2 would be either FWD or AWD as it stands. A 5.0 definitely wouldn't fit, but a 2.0/2.3 EB does. Maybe if Ford wanted something with even more punch maybe they could try to put the 2.7 in it, but then it would upstage the s650 Ecoboost.

As for the EV platform, that's RWD, and I'm guessing about the same level of power as an ecoboost mustang, maybe slightly less.

 

[DeluxeStang]

The problem with that is that it’s supposed to be an EV exclusive platform as it maximizes EV efficiency. Most EVs don’t even have a drive shaft but rather independent engines at each axle or each wheel. So a platform dedicated to EVs isn’t feasible for anything but EVs.
The problem that I have at the moment is that Ford wants to be committed to the V8 beyond 2030 but I don’t see how… Sure they could just extend the D2C life even further with literally almost no improvements and therefore keeping the costs somewhat down but that wouldn’t be a commitment but a slow death after all. They could however, commit to a new platform. I would assume that they would rather close down FlatRock and move production to a new plant that isn’t running on full capacity and has a modular platform. Aluminum body, hybrid, AWD, 4 door, off-road, SUV… Almost everything would be possible but such an investment would require a longer run than just ‘a couple more years’ and I haven’t heard any rumors in that direction…

Aren’t there any FORD employees or people who have management insight left on this Forum? There used to be a few well informed users who had knowledge of such long planned strategies… Surely Ford has already or is in the process of finalizing 2030 and beyond…

So just to clarify, I don't mean move the next gen fullsize coupe over to this EV platform, that should remain a V8 muscle car. But instead, offering a new model in the same way that mach-e is a separate thing than the s650. That new model could use this new affordable ground up ev platform to appeal to younger enthusiasts, and then if/when you want a more traditional but expensive coupe, you can step into the V8.

Highly differentiated so each of them had their own appeal.

 

[AZ_Ryan]

When I think premium, I think back to the '90s when Chrysler/Dodge/Plymouth and Ford/Lincoln/Mercury were a thing (I want to say the closest thing we have to this today is Buick/Cadillac/Chevrolet). For this example, Ford is the affordable/mainstream brand, Mercury would've been premium, and Lincoln is the luxury brand.

Maybe "mainstream" wasn't the correct word to use---I probably should've used "affordable" instead---for my Mustang analogy: I don't think the build quality is good enough for me to consider it an upmarket/premium product (definitely not a luxury one for sure), and the pricing strategy is not (in my opinion) favorable enough to be considered an affordable sports car as much as it was maybe 5-10+ years ago.

Never in the hostory of the company has Ford been a "premium" brand. That's Lincolns thing. So I don't really don't understand what your expectations are for the Mustang when you throw that term around. Also, "premium" and "luxury" esentially the same thing. The Mustang has NEVER been in that category in its 60-year history.

As far as affordability goes, the Mustang brand IS affordable RELATIVE to the current market. Yes, all cars are expensive as hell right now due to inflation, cost of materials and labor, and silly things like government tariffs. But you are losing sight of the fact that there isn't currently a faster or cheaper sports car on the market than a base GT. And making it more premium/luxury certianly isn't going to make it affordable. Lol

 

[MaddNomad]

For sure. A modern day Escort RS Cosworth would be wild. They need to figure out how to make the 2.3L EcoBoost sound better though (if that's even possible)---I don't know how many times I've been told my car sounds like a lawnmower on startup.

For sound they just need to embrace that rally car, anti-lag, turbo noise. It lends to the DNA/character of that type of car anyways.

That was something Ken Block kinda helped Ford capture with the Focus RS.

 

[robvas]

As cool as the Focus RS was they didn't sell that many

 

[robvas]

Oh and let me rant about the Focus RS for a bit.

I very briefly considered one, along with others I know.

$40,000...pretty steep

350hp, 3400lbs, AWD, turbo 4 cylinder

Slightly disappointing 13.5 @ 105mph. The Civic Type R would give you a run. And not much faster than a base WRX that cost $10,000 less.

In typical Ford 4-cylinder fashion, fuel cutoff was at 6,700 RPM. Meanwhile they are sending the 5.2 in the GT350 to 8,000+

Mods...2.3 EcoBoost that didn't like to live past the 400's. Too bad it wasn't something like the Audi RS3 where you could make 600hp and run 10's with basic boltons/tune. That would have sold it.

Meanwhile the Mustang GT that year started at like $33,000....

 

[Gregs24]

Oh and let me rant about the Focus RS for a bit.

I very briefly considered one, along with others I know.

$40,000...pretty steep

350hp, 3400lbs, AWD, turbo 4 cylinder

Slightly disappointing 13.5 @ 105mph. The Civic Type R would give you a run. And not much faster than a base WRX that cost $10,000 less.

In typical Ford 4-cylinder fashion, fuel cutoff was at 6,700 RPM. Meanwhile they are sending the 5.2 in the GT350 to 8,000+

Mods...2.3 EcoBoost that didn't like to live past the 400's. Too bad it wasn't something like the Audi RS3 where you could make 600hp and run 10's with basic boltons/tune. That would have sold it.

Meanwhile the Mustang GT that year started at like $33,000....

34000 built and sold in just over 2 years globally - pretty good numbers for such a 'focused' car.

 

[robvas]

34000 built and sold in just over 2 years globally - pretty good numbers for such a 'focused' car.

13,000 over 3 years in the USA

Sales numbers aside, it just wasn't that enticing.

 

[Gregs24]

13,000 over 3 years in the USA

Sales numbers aside, it just wasn't that enticing.

To you maybe. To be fair the hot hatch is not something that has ever had the following in the US that it has here in Europe. We have corners here and a Focus RS would leave a Mustang for dead on our roads.

Like all similar Fast Fords prices are rising here now.

 

[AZ_Ryan]

There's an ass for every seat. Mine won't be caught dead in a Focus.

 

[BoostRabbitGT]

Never in the hostory of the company has Ford been a "premium" brand. That's Lincolns thing. So I don't really don't understand what your expectations are for the Mustang when you throw that term around. Also, "premium" and "luxury" esentially the same thing. The Mustang has NEVER been in that category in its 60-year history.

As far as affordability goes, the Mustang brand IS affordable RELATIVE to the current market. Yes, all cars are expensive as hell right now due to inflation, cost of materials and labor, and silly things like government tariffs. But you are losing sight of the fact that there isn't currently a faster or cheaper sports car on the market than a base GT. And making it more premium/luxury certianly isn't going to make it affordable. Lol

You're not wrong about the Mustang compared to other vehicles in its segment. I'm probably just stuck in 2019 when a base GT could be had for $35-40K. How the times have changed.

 

[Zig]

You're not wrong about the Mustang compared to other vehicles in its segment. I'm probably just stuck in 2019 when a base GT could be had for $35-40K. How the times have changed.

It’s the poster is priceless problem.

if it’s poster worthy you don’t worry about the price.

today’s price minus time plus experience = relative.

 

[robvas]

As far as affordability goes, the Mustang brand IS affordable RELATIVE to the current market.

There is no 'cheap 2 door v8' market anymore. Mustang is basically the only one left.

BMW M2/M4 really isn't the same thing.

I see the Nissan Z (2 door, 400hp) starts $4k less than the Mustang GT, but I can't think of anything else that would be a similar thing. There are some FWD/AWD things but they're missing 100+ HP.

 

[LouG]

As cool as the Focus RS was they didn't sell that many

It did get a bad name for popping headgaskets.

Sponsored