Some info about Ford

[Stonehauler]

How does one factor state tax when selling or trading in their car? Where I'm at it's 7%, if I were to get $20-25K for my EcoBoost, how much would I actually get from selling/trading it in?

it depends.
Does your state have you pay tax on the price of the new car, or the value of the transaction.

So, let's use easy math. There is a car that costs 100k that you want to buy. Your trade-in is valued by the dealer at 50k.
Do you pay 7k in taxes, or 3.5k in taxes in the deal?

If you privately sell the vehicle, do YOU have to pay any taxes on it? Not the buyer, you!. If not, if you can get 55k from a private sale, then you are good to go. If you pay a tax (say 2 percent), then you still make more from a private sale, but not as much and some would argue that it might not be worth it.

In general, if you can get 10 percent more privately, you are probably good to sell on your own.

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[MAGS1]

Actuarial science really is a complex science! Problem is, most folks don't know enough about actuarial science to make a judgment call about it, yet here we are!

Insurance companies are no doubt one of the most regulated businesses in America. The Fed and every state in the union have complex laws governing them. They are not ripoff artists per se. That said, some of them delay payments which is an exacerbating issue for all of us. No doubt worse, are those which don't use official (OEM) parts, but even that is changing due to safety changes throughout the automotive industry. These facts do not set the price drivers pay to be insured, however.

If you do a bit of research, one of the factors which rears its ugly head is uninsured motorists. Take a gander at this site (https://financebuzz.com/uninsured-motorist-statistics-by-state). Make sure it put the following statement into perspective:

Mississippi had the highest uninsured motorist population in 2019 at 29.4%, followed by Michigan (25.5%), Tennessee (23.7%), New Mexico (21.8%), and Washington state (21.7%). New Jersey, Massachusetts, and New York had the lowest percentages of uninsured drivers, at 3.1%, 3.5%, and 4.1%, respectively.

Source: Insurance Research Center, Insurance Information Institute, USAfacts.org

Note the states with the highest uninsured rates! They're all run by ultra-liberal politicians! New York and New Jersey should be on the high percentage list too, but those two states have the most severe fines and penalties assessed for uninsured motorists.

All good food for thought.

Um, Mississippi and Tennessee are not ultra liberal. Quite the opposite

 

[roket]

I get your sales team wants to make the most they can. if you Mark up a Ford GT or a Shelby Super Snake, that's fine. If you try and mark up a Mustang GT, F150, or Super Duty, that's a problem. You also need to honor the X-plan pricing when it's available.

this is totally aside from your point, but if you see a dealer marking up a new non-ford Shelby vehicle, let Shelby North America know. they have no patience for that and will probably either threaten to our outright terminate their contract with that dealer. Shelby explicitly states that their vehicles are to be sold as-is with no other add-ons or mark-ups

 

[Stonehauler]

this is totally aside from your point, but if you see a dealer marking up a new non-ford Shelby vehicle, let Shelby North America know. they have no patience for that and will probably either threaten to our outright terminate their contract with that dealer. Shelby explicitly states that their vehicles are to be sold as-is with no other add-ons or mark-ups

I get that some vehicles are limited, and like it or not, resellers have made "hard to get" items...even harder to get. I have seen way too many playstations, Xboxes, 3090 video cards, and even cars order slots be reserved by predatory people with the intent to resell that slot, card, or whatever on the open market. This became more prevalent during the pandemic, but I know that my wife had to wait on a list for about for a video card to become available from the manufacturer site. If you went to the local micro-center, you were camping out overnight to be one of the first few in the store to get the 3 or 4 high end video cards that might come in that shipment...even during the winter.

So when it started happening with cars, car dealers decided they wanted in on that action. If people were ordering a GT350 to drive it a few weeks then resell for MORE than it cost new, then yeah what do you think car dealers are going to do?

This is the problem with artificial supply limitations. If you have 5000 people who want the Dark Horse Mustang at the Ford MSRP, but Ford only builds 1000 of them, then FORD is the reason dealers will increase the price. (numbers are entirely made up)

Now there are a whole bunch of regional issues, but, let's ignore them for right now and say that every car can find a buyer from those remaining. Ford plans on releasing 2 batches of 500
So dealers increase the price by 5k over MSRP. At that price, there is still a disparity, and you have 2000 vying for 500 cars.. at 5k over MSRP. After the sale, you still have 1500 people willing to pay 5k over MSRP. So you increase another 7500, so now you are 12.5 over MSRP. At that price you sell 400 of the next 5. At that point, it's a waiting game, but most likely, you will be willing to let customers bargain away a little bit of that, and in the end, you sell them for 10k over MSRP. Suspecting that the average of 7500 is the sweet spot, the next year another new halo car with similar demand and limitation is put out and car dealers sell for 7500 over invoice (probably 8k with inflation). After that, Ford sees what is happening and increases the price 8k, meaning Ford gets the money and really don't use ADM, or if they do, the risk the car sitting too long and having to discount it.

Most likely, at least a few of the people who bought at 5k over MSRP are reselling at 7.5k over MSRP after a few months provided there is not a "no-resell" clause

IDEALLY, Ford will produce as many cars as they need to meet the demand at the price point they set. The only question Ford has is, what is the price point that maximizes return for the demand. If 2k people will pay 5k above the old asking price, that's 10 million bucks ford can raise. If 1k people will pay 7,500, that's only 7.5 million. If 3k will pay 3k over, that's 9m. Ford would be much better off limiting it to 2k and raising the price 5k in terms of profits.

Now, obviously that doesn't include the profit built into the car in the first place and that does need to be taken into account, but I don't have that information on a Dark Horse, GT350, GT500, Mach 1, etc.

The but the point is, limiting your production and then not pricing it correctly is what leads to ADM.

It's a problem that FORD needs to deal with, and the best way for them to deal with it is by increasing production of desired models, put draconian "no-resell" clauses on the vehicles...or more likely, by increasing prices on next years models which forces buyers away from Ford and on to other manufacturers (bad choice Ford IMO)

As for Shelby cars...let's just say that I've never NOT seen a car sold for significantly over MSRP at the two performance dealers I have visited. Both here and where I grew up. Maybe they title them and call them used, maybe they have a separate agreement, or they add 50k of "dealer accessories"...aka, a pine scented air freshner...to the car, but it was being done at least in 2019 and 2022.

 

[Hasler74]

My '24 is $195/mo, full coverage, with a $500 deductible. Registration renewals are $75/year, and annual inspection is $25.50. We lived briefly in Georgia, and they have what they call "ad valorem" tax, which I think is Greek for anal rape. Is based off the value of the car and drops yearly. It can be as high as $2,500 the first year. I've been gone from Pennsylvania for so long that I really don't remember much, other than up thru the late '70's, inspection was TWICE a year! They went to once and added an emissions test.
There are pros and cons to all places, but seems like y'all have a lot more cons than we do in Texas.

Damn you are getting screwed. I’m a state over in NM and I’m paying 160/mo for 250 deductible, full coverage 500k liability, and 20% extra car replacement.

 

[roadpilot]

More taxes? Sure, as the US is in debt up to its ears! Almost fifty trillion dollars worth! Sad part is, only about 40% of the national debt can be accounted for. Hummmm. Let's see, who is the richest person serving in Washington DC? Aha! All of them!

We're currently at right around 35.7 trillion, not 50 trillion.

 

[BoostRabbitGT]

Not sure if this question can be answered here or if this constitutes a new thread. I understand for more expensive, less commonly stocked vehicles, test drives are kept to a minimum. Has anyone heard of signing a contract prior to test driving such a vehicle? (Examples include the GR Corolla, Nissan Z, and I'd imagine any AMG model for cars I'd be interested in looking at.)

 

[kagemusha2662]

Not sure if this question can be answered here or if this constitutes a new thread. I understand for more expensive, less commonly stocked vehicles, test drives are kept to a minimum. Has anyone heard of signing a contract prior to test driving such a vehicle? (Examples include the GR Corolla, Nissan Z, and I'd imagine any AMG model for cars I'd be interested in looking at.)

Usually dealerships allow you to test drive a couple miles around the block. Probably 15 minutes of driving max. For me, they just took my license and held it until I brought the car back.

 

[Stonehauler]

Not sure if this question can be answered here or if this constitutes a new thread. I understand for more expensive, less commonly stocked vehicles, test drives are kept to a minimum. Has anyone heard of signing a contract prior to test driving such a vehicle? (Examples include the GR Corolla, Nissan Z, and I'd imagine any AMG model for cars I'd be interested in looking at.)

Look at it from the final buyer's perspective.

You go to a dealership and you see an absolutely gorgeous car that you absolutely love. It's got the right engine, suspension, transmission, etc. BUT...it has 250 miles on it. 250 miles that it has probably been whipped around with no regards to proper break-in methodology. It has one or two chips in the paint and how many times did some teenager (real or the 50 year old version) stall it because it's their first time driving a stick? How much wear and tear exists on that "new" clutch?
And then the dealership has the gall to ask for a 5k markup from MSRP....

Sorry, not paying it. To even have a chance at it, it's going to need to be off the truck new, not abused by every tom dick and harry. Going back to the above example, my first offer is going to be under MSRP (probably dealer cost excluding the usual dealer incentives) My max offer will be a MSRP and a brand new OEM clutch that they put in at their cost.

So yeah, I've seen some dealerships do that with Mach 1s, GT350s and GT500s. I have yet to even see a DH in a dealership, so I can't say one way or another about that.. Usually a big sign that says "no test drives without a contract to buy". If you don't like it, you lose the "deposit" which will usually be 1k.

 

[BoostRabbitGT]

So the only way I'll be able to test such vehicles will be to wait a while until they become used or CPO, and even then there's a chance the dealer will be picky with them.

That's fine. Thanks again as always for the info!

 

[smurfslayer]

Has anyone heard of signing a contract prior to test driving such a vehicle? (Examples include the GR Corolla, Nissan Z, and I'd imagine any AMG model for cars I'd be interested in looking at.)

I wouldn’t; what if you hate it? Or, what if you have an injury that makes it untenable to keep it long term, etc.

Usually dealerships allow you to test drive a couple miles around the block. Probably 15 minutes of driving max. For me, they just took my license and held it until I brought the car back.

which is illegal. You must have your D/L with you if you’re driving on public roads. We just had a guy in central TX ticketed for not having a plate on the vehicle he was test driving. Apparently that was an ongoing disagreement with the dealer and the local sheriff’s dept.

Look at it from the final buyer's perspective.

You go to a dealership and you see an absolutely gorgeous car that you absolutely love. It's got the right engine, suspension, transmission, etc. BUT...it has 250 miles on it. 250 miles that it has probably been whipped around with no regards to proper break-in methodology. It has one or two chips in the paint ...

So yeah, I've seen some dealerships do that with Mach 1s, GT350s and GT500s. I have yet to even see a DH in a dealership, so I can't say one way or another about that.. Usually a big sign that says "no test drives without a contract to buy". If you don't like it, you lose the "deposit" which will usually be 1k.

IIRC I put down 1k on my ’17 Raptor, which was in transit at the time, but I honestly don’t recall if it was refundable or not. It was at the time a family run business, not a larger urban outfit and 100% of the negotiations on price, etc. all done by text message.

I made it clear that I would not buy without a test drive that impressed me, but obviously I wanted it or we wouldn’t be texting. I did call to get the deposit done.
I took a 40 minute-ish test drive with the sales lady and my wife, who scolded me to ‘stop driving like a juvenile’. I was dropping a lot of coin on that truck and its as definitely going to be something I could live with.

There was then quite a bit of resistance to on the lot test drives if you could find any on the lot.

 

[dusman59]

I used my credit card. The dealer never charged the $500 deposit. I ordered the car and bought it. If I didn't buy for a legitimated reason and they charged me I would have rejected the charge.

 

[SSuperDave]

In Texas also, sales copies the drivers license and insurance of the test driver before they head out. Its a bailment. The customer keeps the license for the reason mentioned above. This is done for any roadtest, not just "exotics". We had someone total a new F-150 on a roadtest, and we filed against their insurance for the damages.

 

[BoostRabbitGT]

I wouldn’t; what if you hate it? Or, what if you have an injury that makes it untenable to keep it long term, etc.

I wouldn't either. I think it'd be cool if they had demo vehicles for performance-oriented models, but I can also imagine how expensive that would be for the dealership...not to mention dealing with more enthusiastic test drivers than myself.

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