S650 Brakes

[abstruse1]

My car has the basic brakes. I wonder if there's any way to reduce stopping distance on the streets, with brakes that are not really hot.

My car has Pirelli P0 AS +3 tires, same size as original tires, and I've swapped the rubber brake lines for stainless braid lines (more solid feel).

My guess is that not much can be done, since braking distances are factors of tire grip and the ABS. Bigger disks shouldn't make any difference except under racing conditions when the disks have to dissipate a lot of heat., and likewise (I think) with the brake pads.

What am I missing?

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[LouG]

Larger diameter discs increase leverage, the 6 pot caliper set up increases pad pressure over a larger pad area. All these things help you stop quicker with less pedal pressure and better feel.
Then stickier/wider tyres resist lock up and triggering the ABS. More weight over the front wheels helps too. But you can't realistically change that much.
I believe the GT PP or maybe Dark Horse has a new Car and Driver (?) record for shortest stopping distance.

 

[Sofa King]

Yeah, DH w/HP (trofeo tires) set the record...

 

[erocker]

The brakes on the Performance Pack GT's and Dark Horse are pretty amazing. Best factory brakes I've ever used.
Options are pretty slim right now for brake pads, but some good quality pads should help when the time comes.
You could go all-out too and upgrade your front brakes to the Performance Pack brakes. 2024-2025 Ford Mustang Brakes | S650 Performance Brake Kits

 

[Yamazuki]

The brakes on the Performance Pack GT's and Dark Horse are pretty amazing.

Yes they are!

 

[abstruse1]

I understand that larger discs increase leverage, but does that matter? It seems like if you could lock the tires up with a smaller disc then you have plenty of leverage and it’s all up to the ABS after that point.

 

[abstruse1]

Unless you’re talking about brake pedal feel, which seems important (it feels good) but probably doesn’t contribute to stopping distance.
I don’t know how precisely the ABS works. If you had a tiny disc, it may be that the ABS couldn’t keep up with the required variations in brake fluid pressure in order to work well.

 

[abstruse1]

Also, I have 18 inch wheels and don’t want to go larger due to ride quality

 

[Junkyard Dog]

Yeah, DH w/HP (trofeo tires) set the record...

My Dark Horse with the handling package impressed the hell out of my instructor at Road Atlanta with its brakes. It impressed the hell out of me, too

BUT

These tires are not great for a daily driver. Everything sticks to them and then gets thrown up under the car, and they are terrible if you are caught in the rain.

That may be outweighed by the fun when driving them on a clean, dry road with no rocks.

 

[Paul's stable]

Larger diameter discs increase leverage, the 6 pot caliper set up increases pad pressure over a larger pad area. All these things help you stop quicker with less pedal pressure and better feel.
Then stickier/wider tyres resist lock up and triggering the ABS. More weight over the front wheels helps too. But you can't realistically change that much.
I believe the GT PP or maybe Dark Horse has a new Car and Driver (?) record for shortest stopping distance.

It was the Dark Horse they were talking about.

 

[LouG]

It was the Dark Horse they were talking about.

They have the same brakes though? The DH has wider wheels and tyres to make better use of the brakes.

 

[Paul's stable]

They have the same brakes though? The DH has wider wheels and tyres to make better use of the brakes.

I'm sorry was not comparing the two. I was just clarifying that in the article that reference came from. They tested a Dark Horse that I believe had the handling package. That's all.

 

[abstruse1]

It was the Dark Horse they were talking about.

Please help me understand what I’m missing here. Assuming that whatever brakes you have can lock the wheels, what difference does it make If you have bigger brakes, since ABS controls the braking near locked wheel conditions.

Racetrack heat buildup is another thing.

 

[abstruse1]

Please help me understand what I’m missing here. Assuming that whatever brakes you have can lock the wheels, what difference does it make If you have bigger brakes, since ABS controls the braking near locked wheel conditions.

Racetrack heat buildup is another thing.

Here’s what ChatGPT says:

[Bigger brakes can’t]

• Guarantee shorter stopping distances—because ABS regulates brake force to avoid wheel lockup. On dry pavement, the limiting factor is usually tire grip, not brake hardware.

So when will larger discs help stop shorter?

• When stock brakes overheat or fade, such as during track use or repeated high-speed stops.
• When paired with better tires, pads, and calipers that allow more aggressive, sustained deceleration without ABS intervention.

Bottom line:

On an ABS-equipped car in good condition on dry pavement, larger rotors alone won’t shorten stopping distances unless the existing system is a limiting factor. Tire grip and road surface remain the primary constraints

 

[Zig]

Here’s what ChatGPT says:

[Bigger brakes can’t]

• Guarantee shorter stopping distances—because ABS regulates brake force to avoid wheel lockup. On dry pavement, the limiting factor is usually tire grip, not brake hardware.

So when will larger discs help stop shorter?

• When stock brakes overheat or fade, such as during track use or repeated high-speed stops.
• When paired with better tires, pads, and calipers that allow more aggressive, sustained deceleration without ABS intervention.

Bottom line:

On an ABS-equipped car in good condition on dry pavement, larger rotors alone won’t shorten stopping distances unless the existing system is a limiting factor. Tire grip and road surface remain the primary constraints

Abs doesn’t lock and hold it grabs and releases (repeatedly quickly - hence why with abs we don’t pump the brakes), surface area plays a part in the effectiveness of the ‘grab’

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