Pulled the Whipple trigger finally.

[Ninjak]

Not on this site, perhaps, but there have been reports of it. I know someone who tracks their GT with an ESS and broke their gears at a track session.

Speaking with my tuner and several others, at my power level, they all advised replacing the gears remove the cats.

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[Q6543]

The only car that I have seen break an OPG with a whipple ALSO had an aftermarket OD balancer, and it was suspected that it was a botched install on the balancer that led to the OPG breaking as well

 

[ZXMustang]

Only need to replace OPG for manual cars with a possibly of missing a shift and banging off the limiter at 8000+ rpm. Auto cars shouldn’t need them. This isn’t a matter of power.

 

[Ninjak]

@ZXMustang : I am also a 6-speed. I don't bounce off the rev, but it is not impossible. The reason power was brought into this is because of my CATS. Some also say that at WOT in high power levels, you have a greater chance of bouncing the REV limiters with a manual.

I am not in full agreement with this, but as I said earlier, I would rather be safe than sorry. Spend the money to replace the gears, or spend the money to replace the engine when or if the OEM gears let go. Hmmm, you decide.

 

[ZXMustang]

@ZXMustang : I am also a 6-speed. I don't bounce off the rev, but it is not impossible. The reason power was brought into this is because of my CATS. Some also say that at WOT in high power levels, you have a greater chance of bouncing the REV limiters with a manual.

I am not in full agreement with this, but as I said earlier, I would rather be safe than sorry. Spend the money to replace the gears, or spend the money to replace the engine when or if the OEM gears let go. Hmmm, you decide.

For you I 100% would. Boosted engine at WOT hitting the hard limiter and rattling that rotating assembly that hard, that’s what breaks them. For auto cars you’d hit the soft limiter on a missed paddle shift so you won’t need to worry about this.
And yes auto or manual you need to remove the cats.

 

[Junkyard Dog]

And yes auto or manual you need to remove the cats.

Or spend the money $$$ to get and install some real cats designed for your power level and heat. E.g., Gesi 85600 GEN2 Advanced G-Sport UHOX EPA Core Only, rated up to 1200 hp, but costs over $2000 for the pair, and it is still a 400 cell converter, so it should actually work as designed. They also make some with a 400 cell primary and a 200 cell secondary, but these are even more expensive.

https://www.gsportbygesi.com/g-sport-emissions-systems-products#GEN2

I don't know how well using a 200 cell converter works with a 2017 and up ECU, but there are folks running them. Gesi offers a 300 cell converter which is way cheaper, but it is advertised for 2016 and earlier cars only. They note that 400 cell is the preferred option when avoiding a check engine light is a priority.

 

[ZXMustang]

Or spend the money $$$ to get and install some real cats designed for your power level and heat. E.g., Gesi 85600 GEN2 Advanced G-Sport UHOX EPA Core Only, rated up to 1200 hp, but costs over $2000 for the pair, and it is still a 400 cell converter, so it should actually work as designed. They also make some with a 400 cell primary and a 200 cell secondary, but these are even more expensive.

https://www.gsportbygesi.com/g-sport-emissions-systems-products#GEN2

I don't know how well using a 200 cell converter works with a 2017 and up ECU, but there are folks running them. Gesi offers a 300 cell converter which is way cheaper, but it is advertised for 2016 and earlier cars only. They note that 400 cell is the preferred option when avoiding a check engine light is a priority.

Yeah its all about what you want them for. Pass emissions, no or little smell, quiet the car down, johnny do good wanting to save the trees or just make the max power without a check engine light. Lots of reasons. But I can tell you I havent had someone use any cat that held up with real boost. Maybe on a 8psi stage 1 whipple that guy babies around to car shows all the time.

But for stage 2 cars pushing boost 12-16 psi, you are asking for problem no matter what cat you get. They are just too close to the action and heat will cook them no matter what eventually.

Side note, my stock cats on my PP GT with 1200 miles lasted 800 miles with the ESS kit 120 pulley. That car was pushed hard for tuning purposes though, but still it should have held longer than that. I got two other tuning customers that saw about the same longevity with the stock cats and more whipple people than I can count. Shit if you could just cut off the stock cats from a GT500 and weld them in, they last forever at 12psi. The ZL1s too from the camaro LT4. Guys run 1k HP and probably 18-20 PSI through them for a long time with no issues.

 

[Junkyard Dog]

Yeah its all about what you want them for. Pass emissions, no or little smell, quiet the car down, johnny do good wanting to save the trees or just make the max power without a check engine light. Lots of reasons. But I can tell you I havent had someone use any cat that held up with real boost. Maybe on a 8psi stage 1 whipple that guy babies around to car shows all the time.

But for stage 2 cars pushing boost 12-16 psi, you are asking for problem no matter what cat you get. They are just too close to the action and heat will cook them no matter what eventually.

Side note, my stock cats on my PP GT with 1200 miles lasted 800 miles with the ESS kit 120 pulley. That car was pushed hard for tuning purposes though, but still it should have held longer than that. I got two other tuning customers that saw about the same longevity with the stock cats and more whipple people than I can count. Shit if you could just cut off the stock cats from a GT500 and weld them in, they last forever at 12psi. The ZL1s too from the camaro LT4. Guys run 1k HP and probably 18-20 PSI through them for a long time with no issues.

In fairness, though, you are not talking about the cats I linked.

Guys try to run stock or "Green" or "HO.'

GESI has lower horsepower options for the 800 horsepower crowd, but they also have converters engineered for 1,000 and 1,200.

Unless you actually installed a pair and ran it and melted it, experience with stock cats or the cheapo Hooks cats just is not relevant.

 

[ZXMustang]

In fairness, though, you are not talking about the cats I linked.

Guys try to run stock or "Green" or "HO.'

GESI has lower horsepower options for the 800 horsepower crowd, but they also have converters engineered for 1,000 and 1,200.

Unless you actually installed a pair and ran it and melted it, experience with stock cats or the cheapo Hooks cats just is not relevant.

True. But again I said depends on why you want to run them. And frankly the market for guys willing to spend $2k on cats is microscopic at best. I might be in that market because I cant STAND the smell, but again not for that money. I'll brave the smell or run straight E85 and spend all that money on fuel system and make power rather than try to keep it legal-ish for that kind of cash. But I do see your point and agree.

 

[MCS]

Has anyone posted a Dark Horse that broke the factory oil pump gears with a Whipple?

I'm running stock OPG with the Dark Horse HP and a Stage 1. Zero problems and I may have missed a shift once or twice.

 

[Ninjak]

I'm running stock OPG with the Dark Horse HP and a Stage 1. Zero problems and I may have missed a shift once or twice.

The Stage 1 Whipple tune is designed for your setup. Stock CATS and stock gears. The tune is made for you not to overshift to hit the rev limiter, and has protection for the CAT setup. This is why Ford warranties it, but the funny thing, at least from what I have heard, if you blow the CATS, Ford sort of says that it's a Whipple issue, and Whipple says no, that is a Ford issue.

I have the stage 1 gear in a box in my garage. My gear came in today

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