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Predictions for S650 Shelby

BoostRabbitGT

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I think for the Mustang it is similiar. Removing the V8 will hit the fans pretty hard. I still see Ford going for a V6 hybrid to overall being able to sell the car in the long term internationally. Ford Europe for example already announced limiting all cars to Hybrids from 2026. But a Hybrid V8 might be the solution that more fans would be happy about. Or at least still offer a pure ICE V8 for NA market.
I'm admittedly still very much in the learning phase regarding the internals of cars. Would a hybrid setup give a naturally-aspirated engine more responsive torque at low RPMs, without the initial lag or sudden jolt of acceleration that turbos tend to have?
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IceGamer

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The beginnings of the thread is..... ".........., curious to what yall think?" Therefore this is what I think SHOULD happen and what I'd like to see.

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Ford does have that car/engineer sample it is/was the "Mach-E". It's just a shame the 1400hp version was not mass produce. And no that car doesn't just get a few miles before having to be recharged.

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Not sure if you ever driven or even been inside a Tesla, but if you have, you'd probably say different! I've driven the Model S performance and it does 0-60 in 2.4 seconds guarantee. What car do you know can accelerate faster than that? And, I haven't talked about the Plaid or Plaid Plus version yet. I actually take offense to your statement cause I own a Tesla, that you refer to as a piece of garbage. Does your car have self driving mode? Record events that happen around the vehicle while driving or Parked? Does your car park itself? Drive itself? Can you watch movies/Netflix, or play games while parked? I'll wait.... , Oh, my garbage Tesla does.

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You'd market it exactly like Tesla. You have an entry level (model 3 vs eco-boost), A mid level (X/Y vs Mustang GT/Mach-E), a performance level (Model S vs GT350/R), and finally a high performance (Plaid/Plaid Plus vs Cobra Jet/GT1000 as you call it). So what market is not covered here.



Do you really believe what you're saying??? I'm going to address each sentence accordingly.
1). It's most definitely about the numbers. Why do some drive Gt350 vs GT? GT vs Eco? uh, numbers.....
2). How does acceleration get boring? I'll never get bored out performing/accelerating a Porsche GT3, GTR's, GT350/R, ZLE Camaro and the list keeps going and growing.
3). I just told you what Tesla has to offer, which is what all the EV's are moving towards
4). Ask any V8 driver why a he/she drives a V8, definitely not for mileage....Its for HORSEPOWER!!

I also drive a 2018 401A GT that makes over 1k rwhp. So I kinda think I can speak on the subject of high powered V8's and Performance EV's

Oh, and let me add that in the very near future pretty much all EV's will have 500 plus mile range. My Gt barely get 250 miles per tank.

First off, it wasn’t or isn’t my purpose to offend anybody in this forum. English isn’t my native language. Besides, I can't do multiquote or whatever you did in order to refer to statements. It helps readability a lot but the only way I know off is to type in [Q UO TE] and stuff by hard...



However, getting to your arguments:

  • This thread isn’t about what the S650 should look like but what we think the S650 will look like. There’s a slight difference in the meaning right there.
  • Ford does have a show car/engineer sample that produces 1400hp. That is true. However, that prototype has a 56kWh battery and it is safe to say that its seven e-motors will drain the battery within a few miles. I won’t do the math here but it will be significantly less than 100 miles.
  • I wasn’t referring to Tesla in general but to their statements when I called them “utterly garbage”. No-one does measure 0-60 times with a “one-foot rollout” but Tesla. Motor Trend did measure very impressive 0-60 in 2.28 seconds for the Plaid (Plus was cancelled by Elon) but that’s not 1.99seconds. Besides, Motor Trend did point out that in order to hit those numbers one has to do certain preparations (quoted from the verge.com)
  • Find a dragstrip that’s willing to let you drive your Model S Plaid. This may be difficult, Motor Trend points out, as most dragstrips will insist on following NHRA regulations that call for speedy cars like this have added safety features like a roll cage and window safety net. Tesla won’t be offering those features, MotorTrend reports.
If you do find a track willing to let you test your shiny new car’s zoom capability, make sure it has a surface prepped with a grippy resin that will help the car launch even more quickly. Regular asphalt simply will not do.

Allow plenty of time if you want to go fast. You’re going to want to tell the car to switch into Drag Strip mode. The car will start prepping itself for the gauntlet you’re going to put it through. According to Motor Trend: “Over the next eight to 15 minutes (the time needed varies), the car preconditions the powertrain for hard acceleration, heating or cooling the battery as needed and chilling the motors.”

Once you’ve got Drag Strip engaged, you’re ready to...wait a little longer. Just a few more seconds this time! Hit the brake, hit the acceleration, let the car drop into a “cheetah stance” over 9 seconds. Just like a sprinter, it needs time to prep itself on the block.

Long story short: 1.99 seconds 0-60 is bullshit and 99.999999% of Plaid owners will never achieve those numbers due to the lack of preparations needed. In addition, Teslas keep failing to meet the EPA-ranges because Tesla again has its very unique way of measuring things. That doesn’t necessarily make them liars but it’s at least questionable if you decide to measure things in a quite unique way. Oh and did we mention autopilot/self driving mode already?
I don’t want to shit on Tesla but simply point out that their numbers and statements should be taken with a grain of salt. To call them “utterly garbage” is in that regard maybe a little bit harsh but one hopefully gets the point here.

  • I do get your point with different trim levels but you didn’t get mine.
  • Again, you don’t get the point or you have a different opinion on who is driving a Mustang and for what reason. As mentioned by other members in this forum – Ace or Twin-Turbo to mention at least two prominent ones – the average customer isn’t in his twenties and only cares about the strip.
  • The reason why some people buy an Eco vs GT vs Shelby is simply money. Everyone would opt for a Shelby if he or she would be willing/able to afford it. Unfortunately not everyone is. There is simply no reason to pick an Eco over a GT unless it has something to do with affordability (including gas, taxes etc.).
  • Acceleration itself will never get boring but it gets dull if one does it repeatedly. Let’s say you are on weekend cruise and you did get you joy out of the first five to ten acceleration boosts on each signal. Then what? Don’t tell me you would do it over and over and over again because none of the Tesla performance owners that I know of in my family does that. Simple acceleration gets dull. The acceleration itself is very impressive – no doubt about that but a Tesla doesn’t provide a driving experience. Ace described it quite nicely ;)
  • Everything Tesla has to offer in terms of driving experience is the acceleration. Apart from that I have to rely on fart sounds while using the horn, Netflix on a tiny screen compared to my TV at home and some other tech that I don’t need/want while driving.
  • As stated above: there are many members in this forum that drive a V8 for the pure love of driving a V8. Not mileage, not horsepower.
 

fpvfan1

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Hopefully the S550 will be the last of the line for Mustangs carrying the Shelby name. Like the man behind the car, the Shelby Mustangs need to be laid to rest (along with the hopeful fact that we'll never see another Bullitt Mustang EVER AGAIN!) Hopefully the S650 Mustang's lineup will include trim packages such as LX (2.3L 310hp/350tq), SVO (2.7L 335hp/380tq), ST (3.0L 400hp/415tq), RS (3.5L Ecoboost 450hp/510lb-ft torque), GT (3.5L powerboost 430hp/570tq), Cobra/Cobra R (3.0L Ecoboost hybrid 494hp/630tq) and Roush (3.5L SHO 660hp/550tq). Three transmission options should be offered (10-speed auto, 10-speed auto-hybrid & a 7-speed DCT offered on everything above the LX). AWD should be standard on every model above the LX. It would also be nice to see both the 3.0L and 3.5L Ecoboost family move to a hot-V setup and since Ford has partnered with VW, use a version of Audi's 48volt electric twin-charge system which would boost all of these numbers for better performance. It's time to move the mustang out of the 60's It's great to pay homage to the old school version of this car that made it what it is today and the car should always carry certain signature things that make it a mustang but it needs to evolve. Alot of times I'm against the whole "mustang family thing" but it worked for the Falcon so why not for the Mustang. A coupe, convertible, gran-coupe, ICE crossover and E-Crossover aren't bad ideas especially considering all of the Ecoboost engines Ford has and now with a VW partner (seeing that VW is over Porsche & Audi), I'm thinking improved AWD systems, improved DCT transmissions, better turbo tech and possibly even improved interior tech. Not to mention improved performance for the Mach E seeing that Audi has the RS E-Tron GT and Porsche has the Taycan. Thoughts like this give me a hopeful outlook for the Mustang future because the world of V8s and Stick shifts is nearly dead and I'd hate to see the Mustang share the same fate as the Camaro. Even the mighty Dodge is quickly revamping things and I'm sure the high horsepower engines and chassis from Alfa Romeo and Maserati will soon be what powers the next-gen mighty mopars along with a bit of electrification and if Dodge does what I'm thinking they're going to do, I think they will bring out the Mopar that was truly designed to go head to head with the Mustang, The Barracuda and it will probably take over the Challenger and Charger with a few different body styles just like it had before and it will be a hot twin turbo V6 performer with hybrid and electric powertrains. Let Shelby rest in the past and lets move on to better. Besides, Roush makes better mustangs anyway! I would much rather see the SVO, ST, RS, GT and Cobra cars get Roush upgrades and an actual Roush mustang at the top of the food chain then another Shelby.
 

IceGamer

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Hopefully the S550 will be the last of the line for Mustangs carrying the Shelby name. Like the man behind the car, the Shelby Mustangs need to be laid to rest (along with the hopeful fact that we'll never see another Bullitt Mustang EVER AGAIN!) Hopefully the S650 Mustang's lineup will include trim packages such as LX (2.3L 310hp/350tq), SVO (2.7L 335hp/380tq), ST (3.0L 400hp/415tq), RS (3.5L Ecoboost 450hp/510lb-ft torque), GT (3.5L powerboost 430hp/570tq), Cobra/Cobra R (3.0L Ecoboost hybrid 494hp/630tq) and Roush (3.5L SHO 660hp/550tq). Three transmission options should be offered (10-speed auto, 10-speed auto-hybrid & a 7-speed DCT offered on everything above the LX). AWD should be standard on every model above the LX. It would also be nice to see both the 3.0L and 3.5L Ecoboost family move to a hot-V setup and since Ford has partnered with VW, use a version of Audi's 48volt electric twin-charge system which would boost all of these numbers for better performance. It's time to move the mustang out of the 60's It's great to pay homage to the old school version of this car that made it what it is today and the car should always carry certain signature things that make it a mustang but it needs to evolve. Alot of times I'm against the whole "mustang family thing" but it worked for the Falcon so why not for the Mustang. A coupe, convertible, gran-coupe, ICE crossover and E-Crossover aren't bad ideas especially considering all of the Ecoboost engines Ford has and now with a VW partner (seeing that VW is over Porsche & Audi), I'm thinking improved AWD systems, improved DCT transmissions, better turbo tech and possibly even improved interior tech. Not to mention improved performance for the Mach E seeing that Audi has the RS E-Tron GT and Porsche has the Taycan. Thoughts like this give me a hopeful outlook for the Mustang future because the world of V8s and Stick shifts is nearly dead and I'd hate to see the Mustang share the same fate as the Camaro. Even the mighty Dodge is quickly revamping things and I'm sure the high horsepower engines and chassis from Alfa Romeo and Maserati will soon be what powers the next-gen mighty mopars along with a bit of electrification and if Dodge does what I'm thinking they're going to do, I think they will bring out the Mopar that was truly designed to go head to head with the Mustang, The Barracuda and it will probably take over the Challenger and Charger with a few different body styles just like it had before and it will be a hot twin turbo V6 performer with hybrid and electric powertrains. Let Shelby rest in the past and lets move on to better. Besides, Roush makes better mustangs anyway! I would much rather see the SVO, ST, RS, GT and Cobra cars get Roush upgrades and an actual Roush mustang at the top of the food chain then another Shelby.
I respect your opinion but if I wanted a 6 cylinder turbo car I would by a M3/4. What’s the point of another 6 cylinder turbo car if one could have a NA V8 instead? Besides, your mentioned trim levels are way over the top. I prefer the Mustang as a recognizable car. If I see a Mustang I expect V8 sound.

We had this conversation before and reading through your arguments again I realized that you are mentioning other manufactures and brands a lot. Do you want the S650 to be like them? Be like Audi with its fancy interior? Because I don’t get that. If I want that I would buy an Audi. I hope that Ford and Mustang keep their heritage in mind and don’t try to be “like the others”. Be a Mustang, be different, be special. That doesn’t exclude it from being modern. Just look at the Porsche 911
 What made it so special is the fact that it’s still the same car, it looks almost the same and if you have driven a 911 before you will instantly recognize it again. A 911 is something special, even here in Germany. A Mustang is also something special, especially here in Germany. An Audi is not.
 

BoostRabbitGT

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Everyone's thinking the potential hybrid V8 Mustang will be the top trim for the S650. I'm wishing it were the base trim instead. I love my EcoBoost, but if a V8 is irrevocably synonymous with the Mustang, I'd ideally structure the lineup like so:

Mustang Hybrid: smaller displacement NA V8 (if not a detuned 5.0), 320-360HP, RWD/AWD

Mustang GT: Coyote 5.0 NA V8, 480-540HP, RWD/AWD?

Shelby [Top Model]: THE PINNACLE OF V8s! (NA or supercharged), ???HP, RWD/AWD?

(It's a good thing I'm not in charge of the S650 program, huh? ALL the trash would hit the fan if that were the case!)

I briefly thought about a base Mustang with an NA Boxer 4 engine, but then I realized everyone would complain about Ford degrading the Mustang brand with WRX/STI shenanigans. I think it would sound better than the I4, but I'd be concerned with reliability as that isn't a strong suit of the WRX/STI if I remember right.

(...I'm really not helping the case of keeping the Mustang special at the moment, am I? 😅)
 


Twin Turbo

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Guys guys guys....lets be real here, for the most part, Mustang uses "hand me down" engines. We have the Coyote because F150 paid for it. We have the Ecoboost, because its seen in many other applications that have paid for it. We're lucky that the top of the line Shelbys get unique engines like Predator and Voodoo, but they are both heavily related to the Coyote.

Internal combustion engines are on the decline, whether we like it or not, so all we're going to see in S650 are update versions of the current engines. I'll be happy if Coyote carries over as is, but if it has further upgrades, I'll take that as a massive win. I'll just be grateful there's still a V8 in the line-up.

The V8-hybrid is only being discussed as an option because a Ford patent for such a setup was discovered a couple of years ago. Whilst I really REALLY want to see a V8-hybrid. I'm sceptical because, again, I can't see Mustang having the $$ to develop this alone. If we'd seen this in F150, I'd be more confident, but even F150 used just an Ecoboost 6 with hybrid tech.

Pie in the sky ideas will remain just that.
 

Ace

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It's fun to see that in general Mustang forums make fun of the Camaro sales but when asked what they want to see in the next they bascially want Ford to repeat what Chevy did with Gen 6. As a car enthuasiast I of course would love to see S650 being a brand new lightweigth platform, having a broad variety of performance engines, making a base GT as fast on track as a GT350, etc.

But car enthuasiasts are a dying minority when it comes to pure sales numbers. The 16 Camaro SS outperformed the 15 GT easily, it took Ford until the refresh to offer even performance and even longer to build a SS 1LE competitor with PP2. The 18 ZL1 1LE even made a 911 GT3 look slow. It took Ford years to finally release the GT500 that demands a crazy $20k more expensive price tag with the CFTP to to beat the ZL1 1LE.

But we all know how the overall car sales developed. The Camaro SS started being nearly $4k more expansive than a simliar Mustang GT. You just can't develop a car for enthusiasts without losing the average joe who just wants an affordable car.

So when it comes to making the S650 profitable focussing on better performance will be way down on the checklist. You have to care about things like rear seat and trunk space first, use engines shared with other cars, having the base cars that starts under $30k and obviously using parts that can be homologated for export markets easily. It's a pretty safe bet that the Mach 1 just reused the Bulllitt engine without any further upgrades because they already had their export market homologation for that.

Tesla is a also a good example here. They are no enthusiast cars. You can't do good track times with them (sending prototypes with huge rear wings and additional cooling to NĂŒrburgring or Laguna Seca mean absolutely nothing if these aren't your production cars - The real plaid did a Laguna Seca time of 1:36.5 which is similiar to a GT350 (non R) which has half of the horsepower and not a $120k pricetag...). But they use the acceleration times as gimmicks to sell cars. "Oh yeah our cars are faster than best 911 you can buy" - If you only measure this one category and nothing else. People fall for that, since they are not enthusiasts. Enthusiasts are not a key selling point anymore.
 

MikeyV

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I just skipped to the end here, but..

Ill be happy when I never see ole Carroll's name on a Mustang again.

Bring back the Cobra and take the licensing fee off the price.
 

Jason304

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Absolutely right, Ace, the Mustang is an emotional event. It's never been about numbers for me, and I'm sure for a lot of other Mustang owners too. And the V8 is a massive part of that.

If S650 were offered with a n/a V8 with 500hp and a 0-60 of 3.5 seconds or a 6 cylinder hybrid with 600hp ad a 0-60 of 2.5 seconds, I'd still take the slower V8

I love just driving around town with the windows down (stereo off) listening to the V8 reverberate off buildings. Even the kids get it.......the amount of times I've been told to "rev it" proves sound is a very important part of the package.

The S550 Ecoboost is no longer sold in the UK. Sales were 80-20 in favour of the V8 again, proving enthusiasts want the V8 fix.
Internal combustion engines are like a living thing. They have a heart beat, breath in and out, have life blood flowing through them, need to be fed. Maybe that’s why we name our cars. EV’s are just cold lifeless, soulless machines.
 

fpvfan1

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I respect your opinion but if I wanted a 6 cylinder turbo car I would by a M3/4. What’s the point of another 6 cylinder turbo car if one could have a NA V8 instead? Besides, your mentioned trim levels are way over the top. I prefer the Mustang as a recognizable car. If I see a Mustang I expect V8 sound.

We had this conversation before and reading through your arguments again I realized that you are mentioning other manufactures and brands a lot. Do you want the S650 to be like them? Be like Audi with its fancy interior? Because I don’t get that. If I want that I would buy an Audi. I hope that Ford and Mustang keep their heritage in mind and don’t try to be “like the others”. Be a Mustang, be different, be special. That doesn’t exclude it from being modern. Just look at the Porsche 911
 What made it so special is the fact that it’s still the same car, it looks almost the same and if you have driven a 911 before you will instantly recognize it again. A 911 is something special, even here in Germany. A Mustang is also something special, especially here in Germany. An Audi is not.
interior wise-i just don't want another Mach E styled interior. To put it simply, a modern version of the 94-98 SN95 Mustang. Something sleek, smooth and sophisticated but still sporty and muscular. Something like an American BMW 8-series but with a lower price tag. Something not overly large but bigger than what we have now and more comfortable (Like what Ford did from 71-73 with the Mustang 2nd Gen). Also everyone knows V8s are dying but to keep from everything being all electric, Ford coming out with new variants of the Ecoboost engines wouldn't be a bad idea. Granted nothing sounds quite as good as a V8, this is true but sound doesn't sell like it used to and if the mustang is to survive then it needs to adapt. Honestly I would be just as happy with the S650 if it could mimic the sound of the Ecoboost Ford GT supercar or The Australian Ford Barra 325T. As for the trim levels, okay maybe 7 is a bit much but I'd rather see names like ST, RS, SVO, GT, Cobra/Cobra R & Roush than Shelby, Boss, Mach 1 and Bullitt.
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