MT82 - How are the shifts?

[marcekb]

For those who have driven both the 3160 and the MT-82 - can a MGW on the Getrag get fairly close to the Tremec in feel? Or is it still a huge gap?

I second this question. Would like to know if this is just about shorter shifting or what else it does... especially as it relates to how the Tremec feels.

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[24 vert]

S650 MT82-D4 PP vert owner here. This is my understanding of the technical issues of the MT82D4 as an owner, gearhead, and as a mechanical engineer.
In terms of its strengths, I think people make a big deal about torque capacity of the MT82... I don't think it's ever had a problem handling a significant amount of input torque. I think that the master/slave cylinder/clutch combo is too slow to fully disengage the clutch during performance driving that people are engaging second and third gears while power is still being fed through the transmission and that tends to break stuff. Even if the clutch pedal is all the way down, you can feel the gear nibble on the 1-2,2-3,3-4 shifts and that's probably what's breaking shift forks or taking teeth off of second or third gear If you're beating on it... The shift fork failures are probably related to this as well as it's unlikely that the trans will be willing to engage the next gear if the clutch has not fully disengaged which is putting too much stress on the shift forks causing failure.
Personally, I would avoid the MT82 at all costs. MT82-D4 transmission itself is not the problem. The problem is either the clutch, master cylinder or the slave cylinder. My personal car has been back to the dealer multiple times with no resolution. Seems like im having intermittent stiff engagement of gears 1 through 4 that is likely related to one of the above components but the dealers are so used to poorly functioning/totally grenaded MT82 cars that mine doesn't impress them with its mild performance anxiety. Due to my previous manual transmission driving experience greater than 20 years with other brands, I have much higher expectations of the vehicle and dealer service. Despite going to multiple different dealers my expectations are not met.
Additionally, the overly long gear ratios in the MT82(which has been a problem since the D4 was released in 2018 I believe) really mean that the car is just a dog compared to what the stats would expect you to believe. The in gear acceleration other than first year is quite lackluster and not very performance-oriented.
The no-lift shift feature is slower at shifting than I am without question because it's pulling power for too long after the shift has been completed.
The Rev match seems to work well but I have not tracked it so I can't comment on that part.
The pedal is definitely slow to come up during fast shifts which hampers performance driving in a performance car.
If I had to do it over, I probably would not buy a mustang at all. If I did it over and bought one anyway, I would buy an automatic. Unfortunately, the resale is so poor on a loaded 2024 due to the inability to access the ECU and generally few buyers at the high price for the s650 when compared to the overall prior sales for the S550, I don't think I'm going to get out of this hole anytime soon if ever.
It feels like the gear ratios are designed to minimize your frequency of shifting (probably CAFE gas mileage targets) instead of you enjoying rowing through the gears. I have the 3.73 rear from the performance pack and it's abysmal. I only wonder how bad the non-performance pack rear end would be.

FWIW my previous manual experience includes Subaru WRX with both the five-speed and the six-speed STi box, and 2018 Camaro SS with the Tremec. I've driven plenty of others through the years but not owned them. The above cars were so much more engaging with the manual transmission compared to the mustang due to the inability for the car to really work well under performance conditions.
The treatment I've received from my local Ford dealers who are all very nice but quite frankly useless if they don't solve my problem, means I will never buy a Ford product ever again. That's my take on the MT82-D4... In a nutshell, clutch / master/ slave cylinder design/function leave a lot to be desired. The gear ratios are wayy too long to enjoy banging through the gears. When it's working, shifts very smoothly through the gears and probably is the most civilized manual transmission to drive at retirement age speeds. Unfortunately, that is not what the car is intended for.

 

[24 vert]

I second this question. Would like to know if this is just about shorter shifting or what else it does... especially as it relates to how the Tremec feels.

There's a large difference in gear ratios. I'm also suspecting there's a significant difference in the synchro design as the speed at which you can shift a tremec compared to the MT82 is significantly different. It is not something that a shifter can change because you can't really force the box to shift faster than the synchros will allow... Nonetheless, the gear ratio difference is something that the MT82-D4 cannot overcome unless an aftermarket gear set is developed.

 

[Instant Action]

I’m with you on all your observations. I am noticing the gear nibble more and more now that my mileage is creeping up. BMW used to put some sort of valve between the clutch master cylinder and slave cylinder so as to not shock the driveline when releasing the clutch and people would remove or disable the valve. I wonder if Ford has used a similar arrangement . Another though is the Tremec most likely uses the same clutch setup as the GT and I haven’t heard of any DH owners complain of the same problem so that points directly to the MT-86 If that is the case, then the only solution is to swap out the MT-86 for a Tremec to the tune of 4K+.

 

[James7]

Hallo,

Your insights are spot-on; it seems the MT82-D4’s issues stem from a combination of slow disengagement and overly long gear ratios. The Tremec swap could be a worthwhile upgrade for a more engaging driving experience.

James

 

[robvas]

Nonetheless, the gear ratio difference is something that the MT82-D4 cannot overcome unless an aftermarket gear set is developed.

4.09's in the rear...

 

[Instant Action]

I’d like to hear if anyone has done a MT86 to Tremec swap and did that cause any problems with the electronics because it didn’t recognize the Tremec in the GT

 

[Farmer Fran]

I am not a fan at all. I am manual true but i got the A10 because that getrag. Especially after coming off 3 cars with TR6060s

 

[24 vert]

4.09's in the rear...

That will get you close on gears 1 through 3 with the earlier MT82(non d4 version) which was geared much better and was really impressive gearing other than the durability issues. Fourth (1:1) remains too long despite the 4.09. 5th and 6th end up shorter and killing highway mileage unnecessarily. If going that deep in the hole, might as well go for 4.56's... as of now, I have not been able to verify that the PCM plays nice with the 456s with regards to auto rev match and the safety systems. Others have had lots of problems in the 2019 model years and ended up taking them out. Tunes were eventually available for them but don't yet know what the availability is for the 2024 to correct for those things. If anybody has any further info, please weigh in. The ideal solution really is first to fifth modified on the gear set and 409's added to the rear. I'm surprised that calimer doesn't do something like this yet as it would benefit all the d4s going back to 2018. That's a pretty big market space given the number of naturally aspirated mustang GTs out there that are primarily street driven and would do much better with a more engaging gearset.

 

[24 vert]

I’m with you on all your observations. I am noticing the gear nibble more and more now that my mileage is creeping up. BMW used to put some sort of valve between the clutch master cylinder and slave cylinder so as to not shock the driveline when releasing the clutch and people would remove or disable the valve. I wonder if Ford has used a similar arrangement . Another though is the Tremec most likely uses the same clutch setup as the GT and I haven’t heard of any DH owners complain of the same problem so that points directly to the MT-86 If that is the case, then the only solution is to swap out the MT-86 for a Tremec to the tune of 4K+.

The device you're referring to is commonly called a clutch delay valve. I'm surprised I haven't heard anything about one yet in the mustang community. I'm suspecting there is one just based on my observed behavior of the clutch and the slow pedal return after a fast shift. It's likely in the plastic clutch line which is why so many people are happier with the aftermarket stainless clutch line compared to the plastic with regards to how the clutch acts after swapping it out.
Nonetheless, would be nice to know where it's at and how to take it out without messing with other components.
The other question with regards to the Tremec vs MT-82D4 that begs to be asked is whether or not the the pedal assembly, clutch line, and slave cylinder is the same or different ... Might be worthwhile to cross-reference the dark horse clutch pedal/clutch master cylinder, clutch line and slave cylinder assembly part numbers versus the GT. I'm suspecting they are the same, but if they are different, a part swap might be something to consider once there's more information available.
Anybody have parts catalog access to further this venture?

 

[highvoltage]

I will say i had no problem shifting my 2016 GT PP. My problem with this car is just the clutch pedal and when it engages/disengages. It’s too high in the pedal travel. The thing on the S550 was i could actually be in the pedal and have it just before the engagement point and my leg was more straight obviously knee was bent still but on the s650 i can’t really extend my leg at all or the clutch is engaging. It has made finding a good seating position hard to have more leg extension but also means I’m really stretching for full gas pedal mashing. I’m 5’11” and i know some don’t mind more bent knee for pedals i like my legs more stretched with my knee issues.

 

[Mr Hyde]

My brother described driving my 24 gt as the transmission felt like it was a bag of wet hammers lubricated by muddy gravel with an attitude problem. Speaking with some Hyperbole. I would agree coming from driving t56 magnums and tr6060's.

 

[REBEL YELL]

I’d like to hear if anyone has done a MT86 to Tremec swap and did that cause any problems with the electronics because it didn’t recognize the Tremec in the GT

YEs has this been performed. I have a 2019

 

[REBEL YELL]

That will get you close on gears 1 through 3 with the earlier MT82(non d4 version) which was geared much better and was really impressive gearing other than the durability issues. Fourth (1:1) remains too long despite the 4.09. 5th and 6th end up shorter and killing highway mileage unnecessarily. If going that deep in the hole, might as well go for 4.56's... as of now, I have not been able to verify that the PCM plays nice with the 456s with regards to auto rev match and the safety systems. Others have had lots of problems in the 2019 model years and ended up taking them out. Tunes were eventually available for them but don't yet know what the availability is for the 2024 to correct for those things. If anybody has any further info, please weigh in. The ideal solution really is first to fifth modified on the gear set and 409's added to the rear. I'm surprised that calimer doesn't do something like this yet as it would benefit all the d4s going back to 2018. That's a pretty big market space given the number of naturally aspirated mustang GTs out there that are primarily street driven and would do much better with a more engaging gearset.

"2019 model years and ended up taking them out" 4.56's or 4.09's

 

[Instant Action]

YEs has this been performed. I have a 2019

Now that you've experienced it, do feel it was worth the $$$ to swap the MT86 for the Tremec? Any electronic issues? Since your GT is a 2019 and probably has fewer electronic nanny's looking over your shoulder than the '24 I would hope so.

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