Is this normal from ford?

[DarthMalice]

I see the full defense of union workers who got ridiculous raises despite this still going on since 2015 is in full effect. I am sorry but there is no excuse for this kind of stuff. I had so many issues on my 2016 of the fit/finish variety. These were issues that would never have passed a QC person if they were 1) not blind and 2) gave a shit. A part or system failing because of an internal defect that can't be readily seen by a QC guy is one thing. Obvious panel gap and misalignment such as that seen in the photo is lousy QC (or as one person said, willfully signing off on subpar alignment/parts) or dealerships that could care less too. Dealer should be the second line for this, looking for this kind of stuff upon arrival and fixing it or turning it right back to the factory before a customer sees the car. I have gotten to the point on this where if I see it on the car while I am browsing, you probably lost a sale because obviously that dealership has no pride in its reputation. It shouldn't be on a customer to find this shit. The Ford CEO keeps clamoring about improving quality...if you can't get this right, you really think the harder stuff is going to get better? Riiiiight. As a counterpoint, I have yet to find an alignment or fit/finish issue on my Versa (cheapest damn car you can buy new) or my wife's Kia Telluride.

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[roadpilot]

I see the full defense of union workers who got ridiculous raises despite this still going on since 2015 is in full effect.

This statement proves one thing and one thing only: You ASSume too much.

I'm likely one of the most ANTI-union people you have or will ever meet in your life.

My comments have absolutely NOTHING to do with the UAW.

Dealer should be the second line for this, looking for this kind of stuff upon arrival and fixing it or turning it right back to the factory before a customer sees the car.

Another one who doesn't have a clue how things work.

I have yet to find an alignment or fit/finish issue on my Versa (cheapest damn car you can buy new) or my wife's Kia Telluride.

And I have yet to find an alignment or fit/finish issue on my DH. What does either prove? Nothing.

 

[roket]

Just got the car a few days ago and noticed all these gaps. Is this common from Ford? Also the wheel alignment isn't straight the engine makes a whining noise like my hellcat did. What is going on with Ford and who should I contact? Thanks for any feedback.

that hood is probably fine, but I have never, ever seen a wing mounted as badly as that one before! also about the whining noise, if you have the 10-Speed auto, that's normal. it's the transmission fluid pump due to having straight cut gears. if you have the 6-Speed manual, i recommend taking it to the dealer ASAP because that is definitely not normal

 

[Karguy]

ide be embarrassed!

I agree its pretty embarrassing to make the build “quality” or better lack of it so obvious and then charge premium $$$ for it ! I dont think the UAW is to blame but Ford management or engineering if econoboxes from japan or korea dont have these build issues as also dealerships are really not equipped or have the people to align hood or fenders without showing that these have been moved without creating new issues as in chipped paint…And other stuff like ticking or whining noises they will say its normal / they all do that…The sad state of affairs after you paid good money that looses its value every year…

 

[Skye]

I think we can all agree problems like this are systemic failures on Ford's part.

As to this specific car and focusing on the rear wing, I can think of several possible failure points:

- The wing was designed and created with poor tolerances. It was not checked before being shipped to Flat Rock. The same could be said for the rear deck area

- The assembly process laid out by Ford is not correct. The steps are out of sequence. Line workers compensate in various ways to fit the wing to the car

- The line worker does not have enough time to properly fit the component to the car

- The S650 is a new car, new exterior. The line worker might not have received proper training. "It's a Mustang, just like the last one. Stick the wing on the rear deck. What else do I need to say?"

- The line worker might be new. Or they might be seasoned worker that doesn't care. Maybe they're dealing with some issue or situation while that car was passing across their area

- Whomever inspects the car before leaving the factory, if the fail is happening at Flat Rock, I'd like to think they are seeing it. But maybe they're not. If they are and they are recording these issues, what are they doing with that data? How many times does the "fail" have to occur before a processes is considered for correcting? If it happened at the factory, why didn't they pull the car aside to correct?

- If the car was like that when it arrived at the dealer, why didn't they notice? If they do notice and correct, are they reporting that back to Ford? I am aware of at least one incentive program for reporting problems and defects

- The OP was excited to get their car. Not to be disrespectful, but I suspect some of that excitement and the activities taking place to receive the car, created the moments where it was possible to be missed, by both the dealer rep and the Owner. While the OP is working with the dealer to repair, how many Owners notice the defect, fix it themselves, with Ford never knowing?

- Did the defect happen after taking receipt? For example, traveling down a road in need of repair, a faulty or poorly-installed connector separated, causing one end of the wing to lift

- Finally, the definition of a defect. The wing is an obvious fail. No one will question that. But to panel gaps, what is Ford's definition of a fail? How many thousandths of an inch off is an error? Is that the same as your definition? Mine?

Those are ten areas of interest I can immediately think of.

For now, the wing appears to be a one-off.

As to the panel gaps, I suspect over time Ford has discussed the issue, crunched the numbers and accepted that as their standard. That doesn't make it right.

As several of us have pointed out, many of these QC topics are not unique to Ford. And we each have our own standards of what makes a correct assembly. I've probably accepted things on my vehicles that others would not. Others might have accepted things on their vehicles I would not.

OP was in the process of returning the car to get these issues repaired.

@ponylover52 , any feedback from the dealer yet? How did things go?

 

[RLE55]

To continue beating this dead horse, has anyone given thought to the wing and alignment issue possibly be a result of the transport loading / unloading, vehicle tie-down. If you've never watched a dozen cars get loaded onto transport for shipping, whether OTR or Rail, or even ship, you'd be flabbergasted. I'm not saying that the QC process at Flat Rock is perfect, but most of the employees that become QC Inspectors, have years of experience and tenure and in general, know what they're doing. Remember, these cars got held up and staged in various locations for weeks / months after production for various reasons. Once they arrive at the dealership, its they're role to inspect and prep for sale. They too are not perfect. Most dealerships are at a staffing level of 50% less or more than what they used to be before C19. C19 ruined a lot of things, and many will never recover. I know as an example, my Ford dealer used to keep a full lot of vehicles, big and small and have at least a half a dozen salesperson's working almost daily. Now they've been reduced to 3, one being the Sales Manager and the lot inventory is....sad. Pretty much everything is Order Online now.
So before pointing fingers at dealerships, FRAP, your neighbor, your dog/cat, consider all the possibilities. I used to be a shoot first ask questions later type of person (military taught me that), so I get it. But eventually you wise up and realize, there is ALWAYS two sides to a story.
I'm done here.

 

[Q6543]

@Skye

I’ll give you another plausible situation… they likely were out of spoilers and kept the line running with the idea “we’ll repair/install later”
Once those type of decisions are made by management… quality can easily fall out of spec.
They build cars missing parts all the time… building without seats, modules, proper wheels, moldings,

Hell, it’s the reason most of us don’t have auto stop/start (which I am thankful for)

 

[rgcbshrty]

@Skye
Hell, it’s the reason most of us don’t have auto stop/start (which I am thankful for)

Mine has all the auto start/stop features, but hasn’t worked from day one. The one thing I’m happy to have “broken”. lol

 

[JAM486HP]

Hey, at least the fucking tires or doors aren't flying off...

QC is shit on almost everything these days. Taking pride in what you do is a dying art, God help us.

I still love this beast and glad I bought it, with all it's flaws... NO regrets!

 

[ponylover52]

I think we can all agree problems like this are systemic failures on Ford's part.

As to this specific car and focusing on the rear wing, I can think of several possible failure points:

- The wing was designed and created with poor tolerances. It was not checked before being shipped to Flat Rock. The same could be said for the rear deck area

- The assembly process laid out by Ford is not correct. The steps are out of sequence. Line workers compensate in various ways to fit the wing to the car

- The line worker does not have enough time to properly fit the component to the car

- The S650 is a new car, new exterior. The line worker might not have received proper training. "It's a Mustang, just like the last one. Stick the wing on the rear deck. What else do I need to say?"

- The line worker might be new. Or they might be seasoned worker that doesn't care. Maybe they're dealing with some issue or situation while that car was passing across their area

- Whomever inspects the car before leaving the factory, if the fail is happening at Flat Rock, I'd like to think they are seeing it. But maybe they're not. If they are and they are recording these issues, what are they doing with that data? How many times does the "fail" have to occur before a processes is considered for correcting? If it happened at the factory, why didn't they pull the car aside to correct?

- If the car was like that when it arrived at the dealer, why didn't they notice? If they do notice and correct, are they reporting that back to Ford? I am aware of at least one incentive program for reporting problems and defects

- The OP was excited to get their car. Not to be disrespectful, but I suspect some of that excitement and the activities taking place to receive the car, created the moments where it was possible to be missed, by both the dealer rep and the Owner. While the OP is working with the dealer to repair, how many Owners notice the defect, fix it themselves, with Ford never knowing?

- Did the defect happen after taking receipt? For example, traveling down a road in need of repair, a faulty or poorly-installed connector separated, causing one end of the wing to lift

- Finally, the definition of a defect. The wing is an obvious fail. No one will question that. But to panel gaps, what is Ford's definition of a fail? How many thousandths of an inch off is an error? Is that the same as your definition? Mine?

Those are ten areas of interest I can immediately think of.

For now, the wing appears to be a one-off.

As to the panel gaps, I suspect over time Ford has discussed the issue, crunched the numbers and accepted that as their standard. That doesn't make it right.

As several of us have pointed out, many of these QC topics are not unique to Ford. And we each have our own standards of what makes a correct assembly. I've probably accepted things on my vehicles that others would not. Others might have accepted things on their vehicles I would not.

OP was in the process of returning the car to get these issues repaired.

@ponylover52 , any feedback from the dealer yet? How did things go?

I was very excited to get the car and I guess I just missed things that I should've seen. Big darn on my part. Car has been at the dealer for 2 days now with no follow up call yet, giving them a call tomorrow and if its not being worked on I'm gonna try to get it into a new dealership. That whole dealership just seems off to me and not very serious.

 

[ponylover52]

Really shouldn't take more than 2 days to address these issues im having in my opinion, could be wrong tho. Ive never had to take a brand new car back to the dealership for these kind of issues.

 

[Skye]

Car has been at the dealer for 2 days now with no follow up call yet, giving them a call tomorrow and if its not being worked on I'm gonna try to get it into a new dealership.

That whole dealership just seems off to me and not very serious.

Sorry to hear that.

If possible, I'd follow-up in-person. You never know what's going on at these places, how busy they are. And it's much easier for someone to dismiss a phone call than to continue to see a customer waiting.

They might have parts (connectors) or even a new spoiler on order. If they're going to work on your panel gaps, they could be waiting on the right person in the body shop.

No one way to handle it, but a direct conversation could help get a feel for things. Maybe first define what's broken, if parts are needed, how long until they arrive. If no parts are needed or they have them, great. Then, timelines.

If by now they haven't made an initial assessment, end the conversation and shunt directly to head of sales or the GM. Simply let them know you found it broke and are looking for a realistic schedule of when it will be fixed.

For all conversations, I try to stay as antiseptic as possible. You can certainly let them know how disappointing it is, how Ford shouldn't be selling new cars with broken parts on them, etc. But leave the emotion out of it.

Often, while the highers don't know something like this is in their bays, they are generally good at making it right once they do.

I re-read your initial post, that the car was received just a few days ago. That could actually very much work in your favor.

Have you received the Ford survey yet? The car survey? If you have or when you do, don't complete it. Just hold it.

If you didn't know, the after-sales survey is tied to the salesperson's wallet; it has a direct impact on their commission and pay.

I was aware of the survey, how they worked and expected it after my purchase. After a few weeks, I didn't get it. A regional rep started reaching out to me directly with the GM and salesperson CC'd. They weren't angry or anything, but expressed concern for the lack of survey response and did want it completed. Turns out Ford had been sending it to the wrong address. After a few exchanges, it was all good and we moved on.

The above highlights how much attention, and leverage, can be received when the survey is not completed.

Other e-mails you get from a rep or the dealer can be handled in their respective chains, with anything from Ford corporate held until the car is fixed.

Hope that helps.

If you have the time, let us know how things went. Good Luck.

Edit,

Something that could help anyone receiving a car: take someone with you. A cold pair of eyes (and ears). Fortunately, most of us receive our cars without issue. In those other instances, another might help spot things that don't seem quite right. Or, if they overhear something, "Errrrmmm, what a minute. That's not..."

 

[Karguy]

I was very excited to get the car and I guess I just missed things that I should've seen. Big darn on my part. Car has been at the dealer for 2 days now with no follow up call yet, giving them a call tomorrow and if its not being worked on I'm gonna try to get it into a new dealership. That whole dealership just seems off to me and not very serious.

To your defense you bought a new car for good money and not a used one you have to comb through in order not to get screwed…These build issues should not happen in 2024 on any vehicle not matter how much it costs but Ford obviously does not build quality nowadays…But they are not alone when I looked at misaligned panels like it the wheel wells and fenders of the C8…But these fanboys and girls obviously dont care and so they get what they deserve…On the C7 some panels right from the factory where already chipped because they touched…So Ford is just as good or bad as GM when it comes to build quality unfortunately…And your dealer is probably just as upset as you are because Ford probably does not pay them for their screw ups and will be told that is current technical standard like other noises being told to be normal…These vehicles have to be enjoyed for what they are not of high build quality on how put together or materials used , gaps , paint or rattles but the fact that they still make V8 noises and can be had with a manual…If they had more Torque I would put one in my stable , too despite the shortcomings and the prices they ask for them lately because $75K plus tax and license is getting ridiculous especially with these flaws…When you charge these prices the expectations rise exponentionally….LOL

 

[ponylover52]

To your defense you bought a new car for good money and not a used one you have to comb through in order not to get screwed…These build issues should not happen in 2024 on any vehicle not matter how much it costs but Ford obviously does not build quality nowadays…But they are not alone when I looked at misaligned panels like it the wheel wells and fenders of the C8…But these fanboys and girls obviously dont care and so they get what they deserve…On the C7 some panels right from the factory where already chipped because they touched…So Ford is just as good or bad as GM when it comes to build quality unfortunately…And your dealer is probably just as upset as you are because Ford probably does not pay them for their screw ups and will be told that is current technical standard like other noises being told to be normal…These vehicles have to be enjoyed for what they are not of high build quality on how put together or materials used , gaps , paint or rattles but the fact that they still make V8 noises and can be had with a manual…If they had more Torque I would put one in my stable , too despite the shortcomings and the prices they ask for them lately because $75K plus tax and license is getting ridiculous especially with these flaws…When you charge these prices the expectations rise exponentionally….LOL

Just picked up the car and they fixed the wing unfortunately not the hood. She said adjusting it with the hood spinning things was the best she could do. She really wanted a 5 on the survey told her it’s not happening. Car should’ve been thoroughly checked by dealership but of course not. Other issue, does the door shake and mirror on your gt’s when the door is open?

 

[ponylover52]

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