Dark Horse vs Shelby

[Hack]

Its not like Ford cant make their own brands super popular on their own, after all one of the more talked about cars from the 2000's is the SVT Cobra "Terminator" an entirely Ford name.

Here's a Cobra. It's made by Shelby, not Ford. And it is legendary. Hopefully Ford paid Shelby when they used the Cobra name. Hopefully they paid for the name Terminator as well - to the extent that name was used in their literature. Some of us remember that name came from a series of movies.

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[Dharri21]

Here's a Cobra. It's made by Shelby, not Ford. And it is legendary. Hopefully Ford paid Shelby when they used the Cobra name. Hopefully they paid for the name Terminator as well - to the extent that name was used in their literature. Some of us remember that name came from a series of movies.

Problem is that in 1964 Shelby sold over all rights to the Cobra name and logo. The tiffany snake is co-owned by SAI and Ford. When Ford uses it must be standalone. When Shelby uses it, it must be used in conjunction with the name Shelby.

 

[roadpilot]

The brakes are one of the things I miss the most about my GT350. That's about the only thing I would single out as being significantly better on a GT350 vs a DH.

Did MotorTrend not test a GT350? Because last fall, they said the DH out-braked EVERY production car they EVER tested.

https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2024-ford-mustang-dark-horse-first-test-review/

FYI - They did test the GT350 ... several years. 2017 and 2020 for sure.

 

[roadpilot]

I guess they don't like honoring the past and they want to forget about it and move forward.

That couldn't be any further from the truth. Ford has done nothing BUT reuse all the old names, generation after generation, for decades. Dark Horse is the first deviation from that approach in quite a long time.

 

[Upacurb]

Old Shelby’s … new Shelby’s…. Mach 1… Dark Horse

So I’m going to say something a little controversial here but the Dark Horse is closer to an original Shelby than a modern day Shelby is in regards to everything else but price

Oh a little background

I’ve owned a 66 GT350 … a 67 GT500 and now my 350R

Look … all the old Shelby were … they were just Mustangs with some different body panels … some different suspension pieces… and the motors were just hopped up factory Mustang motors … I mean outside of the 67 GT500 (428 wasn’t available until 68 in standard Mustang) there were no bespoke motors in the old Shelby’s…

When you think about it… the Dark Horse really is the same thing … different body panels … different suspension pieces and a hopped up factory motor …

And I’m sorry but my 350R is a much better street and track car then any of my old Shelby’s were … ok maybe my 66 was kind of close but my 67 was a horrible car to drive …super nose heavy …

The only thing where the new Shelby’s are like the old ones is pricing … just yesterday a 2015 GT350R sold for 210k at mecum with 6k miles on it… my car is now 5 years old with 15k miles and still worth more then the sticker price was on it a 2020 Heritage 350r just sold last month for close to 150k

Yes Shelby has been dead for decades … but when I pick my daughters up from school… kids are still running up saying Shelby …

The funny thing to me is the one thing that makes modern Shelby’s special to me… the bespoke motors is something that was never really offered in old Shelby’s … as like the Dark Horse they used a slightly modified Mustang motor …

Oh pictures I guess

 

[GripTime]

Great post as always @Upacurb . I love this debate. I really struggled for a long time with the GT350R. I had a chance to buy one with a 10K ADM but refused. The Voodoo engine was not enough to bump me off of the looks, interior, and exhaust note that I didn't particularly like. Plus I have my 2006 GT which is completely modded and feels very raw and it is very light. I prefer much smaller track cars like a Miata so the 350 wouldn't be a track car either. Anyway, then the C8 came out and once again I was devastated with no manual and an appearance that I didn't care for at all. I felt like I was the only person on earth who didn't like the GT350R or the C8.

When the Dark Horse came out it was instant for me and I was so relieved I would finally be able to get a factory Mustang that didn't really need mods. It was exactly what I was looking for in an overall package. I feel as though Ford has done a great job with the Handling which is the main reason I wanted the car. However, people need to realize that the GT350R may be the best Ford Mustang ever. That formula may not be repeated. It is what it is.

 

[Karguy]

I dont want to get in a discussion about names because I dont care about names only cars…But I remember the GT350 and all the hype in the media about the car.So I wanted to buy one too but not without and testdrive and for sure not paying a penny over msrp…So in 2019 I finally got a testdrive and price was msrp…Driving it was the biggest disappointment ever and only things I liked was the Tremec and the Brembos ! The engine had no torque and really not more power than the Coyote I drove afterwards , vibrated badly and had nothing of that good V8 sound I love.Handling was not good either as in tramlining and front and rear feeling disconnected and the body feeling like a empty beer can the engine flexing the body at full acceleration in a straight line…I thanked the dealer for the test drive and bought a new SS 1LE a week later.As bad as it was with cheap plastic interior and no outward visibility and the LT1 that really is not that fun either a much better car to drive fast from a torque and handling perspective…Moral of the story as “bad” as the DH is (black eyeliner,same old chassis , same low torque Coyote , laggy touchscreens) I would get a DH over the GT350 because of the engine that sounds great and has a precise and sturdy Tremec to shift and very good Brembos to stop the heavy car Of course prices are getting ridiculous what they are charging for pretty much a little makeup nowadays on more than 10 year old cars…Having said that I hope Ford stays in the game by upping their game as Dodge is going ice 6 or electric which is a total no go for me and team Camaro might build a Mach E….Enough said

 

[Zig]

I dont want to get in a discussion about … and team Camaro might build a Mach E….Enough said

A camaro without a ‘cam’ is an earo (e air oh)?

 

[Hack]

Did MotorTrend not test a GT350? Because last fall, they said the DH out-braked EVERY production car they EVER tested.

https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2024-ford-mustang-dark-horse-first-test-review/

FYI - They did test the GT350 ... several years. 2017 and 2020 for sure.

That's a tire adhesion test. Not sure if you're really serious, but I'll explain as if you don't understand. One stop, the brakes can always lock up the tires. So the time/distance to stop weak link is tire grip, not brakes. No one is questioning that the DH has super sticky and soft tires. That is pretty much its defining characteristic that made it turn quickly. On track, the brakes get used over and over again. Often they get hot and stop working well towards the end of the day. On track is where brakes really differentiate themselves.

But I wasn't actually talking about either of those things. What I love about the GT350 brakes is there is very little slop in the system. When you touch the pedal, the brakes are ON. And despite that immediacy, they are very easy to regulate. This is a fun and enjoyable thing about driving the car that you notice everyday and every time you use the vehicle, street or track.

That couldn't be any further from the truth. Ford has done nothing BUT reuse all the old names, generation after generation, for decades. Dark Horse is the first deviation from that approach in quite a long time.

I agree, they continued calling the car the Mustang. What were they thinking? They need to throw that old crappy name away immediately. It's really foolish to continue with the same name on a car. They should rename every generation like the Citation, Cobalt, etc.

 

[Q6543]

Me and karguy agree for once… non R gt350s are pretty lackluster…I’ve had personal experiences with 3 friends owning them 1 R and 2 normies.

and the tremec isn’t all that either.
1st thing fathouse does is build the engine and go sequential trans.

 

[Karguy]

Sequential trans…Yummy but probably not cheap

 

[roadpilot]

That's a tire adhesion test. Not sure if you're really serious, but I'll explain as if you don't understand. One stop, the brakes can always lock up the tires. So the time/distance to stop weak link is tire grip, not brakes. No one is questioning that the DH has super sticky and soft tires. That is pretty much its defining characteristic that made it turn quickly. On track, the brakes get used over and over again. Often they get hot and stop working well towards the end of the day. On track is where brakes really differentiate themselves.

But I wasn't actually talking about either of those things. What I love about the GT350 brakes is there is very little slop in the system. When you touch the pedal, the brakes are ON. And despite that immediacy, they are very easy to regulate. This is a fun and enjoyable thing about driving the car that you notice everyday and every time you use the vehicle, street or track.



I agree, they continued calling the car the Mustang. What were they thinking? They need to throw that old crappy name away immediately. It's really foolish to continue with the same name on a car. They should rename every generation like the Citation, Cobalt, etc.

Out BRAKED *every* other car they have tested.

 

[Upacurb]

Me and karguy agree for once… non R gt350s are pretty lackluster…I’ve had personal experiences with 3 friends owning them 1 R and 2 normies.

and the tremec isn’t all that either.
1st thing fathouse does is build the engine and go sequential trans.

It all depends what you are looking for … I think you mentioned you also had a 1000hp fox body… sorry if that’s not you… but yes if you want to go drag racing much better cars then a 350R … I personally would build another fox body if I wanted to drag race … my old fox body… while not 1000hp it did make some decent power… was running a 347 NOVI 2000 combo on pump gas…

This picture was at Pomona … back then it was fast for a drag radial car… nothing like what they do on a radial today though..

 

[REV745DH24]

tbh Ford kind of needs to drop the Shelby name, the dude died over a decade ago, he has no involvement with the current generations development. That coupled with the last gen top end being the SHELBY GT500 vs the DODGE SRT hellcat and the CHEVY Camaro ZL1, Fords the only one who had to use an outside company to make their high end. makes it look kind of like Ford doesnt know how to make a performance car, which is anything but true, the only thing Shelby really did for the S550 generation was slap their name on it. Its not like Ford cant make their own brands super popular on their own, after all one of the more talked about cars from the 2000's is the SVT Cobra "Terminator" an entirely Ford name.

Like the one I used to have in 2003!

Surely missed this car but now Dark Horse is what I have now, got the good feeling back in my life!

 

[Upacurb]

Like the one I used to have in 2003!

Surely missed this car but now Dark Horse is what I have now, got the good feeling back in my life!

I love me some Terminator....that was the one Mustang I missed...I always wanted to build one and it just never happened....love the color....

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