Confirmed: European Dark Horse Mustang Gets 449 Horsepower

[OppoLock]

No not really they work by trapping particles in a mix match mesh and traps soot, that Hass to be manually burned off “diesels” . However a DOC and catalytic converter are very similar The only big difference between the two is DOCs run at a considerably higher temperature to continually burn off soot

One makes bad gas turn into good gas, one traps tiny bad things, but in the context of this thread talking about the DH having less power, is it fair to say that “the concept” of using a honeycomb of material—regardless of whether it’s converting or trapping—can cause the same basic back pressure reductions ie exhaust restrictions

Worded another way. Removing cats typically = more power. Removing GPFs typically = more power

That’s all I’m trying to say, or is that off

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[Gogoggansgo]

One makes bad gas turn into good gas, one traps tiny bad things, but in the context of this thread talking about the DH having less power, is it fair to say that “the concept” of using a honeycomb of material—regardless of whether it’s converting or trapping—can cause the same basic back pressure reductions ie exhaust restrictions

Worded another way. Removing cats typically = more power. Removing GPFs typically = more power

That’s all I’m trying to say, or is that off

Oh absolutely it’s just hard to describe the differences because DPF will not clean the exhaust emissions like a cat and a cat will not trap particulates. But a DOC will do both lol

 

[Hack]

Gas particulate filter are not like cats they work the same way a DPF does for a diesel but for a gas engine. It’s really dumb for a gas engine but with direct injection soot increases on gas engines “aka black exhaust tips”
The European Union got all salty about potential particle issues in the air and mandated them

It’s stupid and lame

Gonna have to disagree with this somewhat. Air quality is very important in my opinion. It impacts everyone (eventually). Now, I do think that it's stupid and lame to write gas engine regulations that cause manufacturers to use direct injection on NA engines. Direct injection sucks. Yes, it allows a teensy bit more power in some circumstances, but the juice ain't worth the squeeze, so to speak.

I feel the only reason manufacturers go along with this is they want engines to be thrown away as quickly as possible. They hate port fuel injection NA engines that can last 200,000 or even 300,000 miles quite easily.

 

[TTown]

That's pretty sad. It's probably a good idea to get your US mustang sooner rather than later as I wouldn't be suprised to see HP numbers start dropping in future model years (see the Mach 1).

 

[falcongtho3]

And then there's this...
https://www.autoweek.com/news/a4473...on-federal-fine-for-emissions-defeat-devices/

 

[Dena]

Gonna have to disagree with this somewhat. Air quality is very important in my opinion. It impacts everyone (eventually). Now, I do think that it's stupid and lame to write gas engine regulations that cause manufacturers to use direct injection on NA engines. Direct injection sucks. Yes, it allows a teensy bit more power in some circumstances, but the juice ain't worth the squeeze, so to speak.

I feel the only reason manufacturers go along with this is they want engines to be thrown away as quickly as possible. They hate port fuel injection NA engines that can last 200,000 or even 300,000 miles quite easily.

On the mustang they use both systems. Port injection probably all the time and direct injection under power after the engine passes top dead center. Port injection gets the burn started but has to be limited because of knock especially when running low octane fuel. Direct injection latter in the burn when low octane isn't as critical. The two step process can provide a significant gain in horsepower or Ford wouldn't have done it. As I recall, they are back to a 12 to 1 compression ratio and knock under load becomes a real issue. Before the pollution restrictions, we were running those compression ratios but we also had 100 octane fuel available at the pump. My Falcon would knock like crazy with anything less that 95 octane. Naturally when they took the lead out of fuel, the octane dropped and while you can still get higher octane fuel, it's difficult to find and normally sold for racing usage.

 

[Hack]

On the mustang they use both systems. Port injection probably all the time and direct injection under power after the engine passes top dead center. Port injection gets the burn started but has to be limited because of knock especially when running low octane fuel. Direct injection latter in the burn when low octane isn't as critical. The two step process can provide a significant gain in horsepower or Ford wouldn't have done it. As I recall, they are back to a 12 to 1 compression ratio and knock under load becomes a real issue. Before the pollution restrictions, we were running those compression ratios but we also had 100 octane fuel available at the pump. My Falcon would knock like crazy with anything less that 95 octane. Naturally when they took the lead out of fuel, the octane dropped and while you can still get higher octane fuel, it's difficult to find and normally sold for racing usage.

I understand the theory of how the DI/PI combination works. It's certainly better than DI alone from an engine life standpoint. But it also increases cost and complexity of the engine (and emits particles/more pollution). How long the engine will last depends a lot on implementation and the quality of the components. Port injected engines last a really long time and are easy to maintain. DI engines tend to get carboned up, lose compression and get tossed.

The Voodoo port injection 12:1 CR at 5.2 liters and 526 hp. Runs on 91 no problem. The 2024 Coyote at 5.0 liters 12.0 CR and 500 hp with direct injection added. The information I saw was based on 93 octane. I'm not sure if it runs on 91 or 87. I guess if it runs on 87 that would be a small benefit from DI. I personally never minded buying 91.

WOW holy CRAP the DH Coyote really makes a ton more power!!!!

Yeah, direct injection is totally worth it.

 

[Dena]

I understand the theory of how the DI/PI combination works. It's certainly better than DI alone from an engine life standpoint. But it also increases cost and complexity of the engine (and emits particles/more pollution). How long the engine will last depends a lot on implementation and the quality of the components. Port injected engines last a really long time and are easy to maintain. DI engines tend to get carboned up, lose compression and get tossed.

The Voodoo port injection 12:1 CR at 5.2 liters and 526 hp. Runs on 91 no problem. The 2024 Coyote at 5.0 liters 12.0 CR and 500 hp with direct injection added. The information I saw was based on 93 octane. I'm not sure if it runs on 91 or 87. I guess if it runs on 87 that would be a small benefit from DI. I personally never minded buying 91.

WOW holy CRAP the DH Coyote really makes a ton more power!!!!

Yeah, direct injection is totally worth it.

It will run on 87 octane with a slightly reduced output. Good if your in the middle of nowhere and all you can get it 87. Happened to me once in of all places Oklahoma.
I suspect with the improved intake once they get the computer unlocked they may find another 100-200 horse power in the engine without turbocharging. Only problem I see is you might need a bigger fuel pump to feed the thing.

 

[Hack]

It will run on 87 octane with a slightly reduced output. Good if your in the middle of nowhere and all you can get it 87. Happened to me once in of all places Oklahoma.

Yeah that is nice. I've never been anywhere that didn't have 91, but sometimes it's tough to find 93.

I suspect with the improved intake once they get the computer unlocked they may find another 100-200 horse power in the engine without turbocharging. Only problem I see is you might need a bigger fuel pump to feed the thing.

Nah. No way, bro.

 

[Ace]

Don't take this information as "confirmed". Yes Ford told multiple magazines that they currently are at 449 bhp for the EU Dark horse. But remember in 2019 Ford actually informed european dealers that the EU GT with automatic and the ecoboost will drop 10 hp - In the end they manages to just drop 1 hp. Until the final homologataion is done there is still room for changes.

Also have in mind that us and european measurements are different. us carmakers are allowed to use their best premium fuel to get to a horsepower number. in europe they have to use the standard fuel which alone sets the car back a bit. Also the european measurement has to be taken with a full GPF. In regular driving with high temperatures you usally will not reach that the filter become full.

In the end the important part will be how much performance the car actually delivers. The Gen 6 was heavily set back by not having the performance axle ratio on MTs (combined with the way too long gear reatios) and even the Mach 1 didn't get the Torsen diff.

 

[Zig]

…. —regardless of whether it’s converting or trapping—can cause the same basic back pressure reductions ie exhaust restrictions

Worded another way. Removing cats typically = more power. Removing GPFs typically = more power

That’s all I’m trying to say, or is that off

Anyone test if high-flow cats help maintain exhaust temps or not? Hot exhaust usually flows better. Does the heat from the cat help maintain temp from the header to the cat?

 

[Twin Turbo]

Don't take this information as "confirmed". Yes Ford told multiple magazines that they currently are at 449 bhp for the EU Dark horse. But remember in 2019 Ford actually informed european dealers that the EU GT with automatic and the ecoboost will drop 10 hp - In the end they manages to just drop 1 hp. Until the final homologataion is done there is still room for changes.

Also have in mind that us and european measurements are different. us carmakers are allowed to use their best premium fuel to get to a horsepower number. in europe they have to use the standard fuel which alone sets the car back a bit. Also the european measurement has to be taken with a full GPF. In regular driving with high temperatures you usally will not reach that the filter become full.

In the end the important part will be how much performance the car actually delivers. The Gen 6 was heavily set back by not having the performance axle ratio on MTs (combined with the way too long gear reatios) and even the Mach 1 didn't get the Torsen diff.

I hope you're right Ace, it'd be pretty sad if the Gen 4 Coyote over here has less power than the Gen 3 in the Mach 1.

Having said that, we should still celebrate the fact we're offered a V8 in Europe.....even if it is neutered!

 

[Evo1986]

Don't count the chickens before they hatched!

As long as Ford Europe and Germany doesn't confirm anyhing, I don't give a flying *uck about what independant articles write about.

Let us just wait what the final numbers be and then we can happily discuss.

 

[2022 Mach 1]

Probably a combo of tuning and a Gas Particulate Filter, which is similar in concept to a catalytic converter

EU laws are cucked when it comes to regulated dB exhaust levels. I think GPFs also act like an additional muffler on top of cleaning things out further

Also explains why the EU-market DH sounded so quiet at the Goodwood FoS run

The article said the UK gets a more subtle exhaust. Going from my mod Mach 1 to the DH is probably going to feel lame.

 

[2022 Mach 1]

I feel bad for you guys. That is less than what you guys got for the Mach, right?

We didn't get the 460hp in the Mach 1 either thanks to the GPF filter. We also didn't get the Torsen differential.

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