Auto Start/Stop killed by EPA rules deregulation

[AZ_Ryan]

Why are you all arguing about Ford's European truck market?

Word of wisdom - every conversation with @Gregs24 goes like this.

Best not to engage unless you have A LOT of time on your hands.

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[smurfslayer]

“Ford Pro has achieved significant success in the European cargo van market, becoming the leading manufacturer for eight consecutive years. In 2022, Ford Pro recorded its highest-ever market share of 15%, surpassing competitors like Renault, which held a 14.4% market share.

Best-Selling Models

• Ford Transit Custom: This model was the best-selling one-tonne van in Europe and also topped the overall vehicle sales in the UK.
• Ford E-Transit: The all-electric version of the Transit has also gained traction, leading sales in the two-tonne electric van segment since its launch.

Market Presence
Ford Pro increased its market share year-over-year in eleven countries, including major markets like Britain, Germany, and France. This consistent performance highlights Ford's strong position in the commercial vehicle sector across Europe.”

They are also great for White Broncos and windowless white vans.
So I've heard.

 

[LouG]

I'll just add Ranger ute sales in Oz and NZ, the buggers are everywhere, SUV's too.
Probably also elsewhere outside of US and Europe.
There's even an OZ phrase for ranger drivers, Ranger Danger.

 

[MikeyV]

My '25 has ASS. It really doesn't bother me - the button is right next to the start button.

I didn't have to pay the Gas Guzzler Tax,
My starter and battery are beefed up.
It never actually functions because I have a brain and push the button.
Or I'm in sport.

Non-issue for me.

 

[GeekGT5.0]

Just in case anyone was wondering, no Ford won't put out an update giving you the option to disable it permanently.

 

[Zig]

Just in case anyone was wondering, no Ford won't put out an update giving you the option to disable it permanently.

Didn’t they already do that with the updated sync modes? As in it is said you can set it as a configuration in a custom mode although it seems it reactivates at startup via software (defaults to the default mode) but no real reason why they couldn’t especially since no enforceable penalty

 

[GeekGT5.0]

Didn’t they already do that with the updated sync modes? As in it is said you can set it as a configuration in a custom mode although it seems it reactivates at startup via software (defaults to the default mode) but no real reason why they couldn’t especially since no enforceable penalty

No, you can just set it off for a custom mode. Which still requires an input starting the car.
Yea it would be very very rare for ford to do a backwards update to change a feature like that. Because they got the credits for it when the car was made, I don't think it's going to ever be changed.

The only thing I think they could do is look the other way if you have it disabled in forscan or hardware disabler, but most likely would use it to deny a warranty claim for something completely unrelated. (at least that's what I would suspect.)

 

[Gregs24]

Why are you all arguing about Ford's European truck market?

Word of wisdom - every conversation with @Gregs24 goes like this.

Best not to engage unless you have A LOT of time on your hands.

As I have said many times before - YOU don't have to reply if it causes you so much angst.

 

[Gregs24]

Ford has been showing signs of pulling out of UK / Europe for some time now. They've axed the best selling car (fiesta) and pretty much finished off the next best seller (focus) and have left themselves with vehicles people aren't interested in (Capri/explorer/ranger) the best selling vehicles at Ford main dealerships are all Chinese.

Edit - forgot to say, other than on my driveway or at my dealership I rarely see a ford less than 3 years old. I see plenty of new cars, plenty of fords just not any new fords

Plenty of new Fords around here. Puma is still the UK best seller give or take. Ranger is one of the best selling pick up trucks in the UK. Ford committed to Europe with new models coming this year and next.

 

[Gregs24]

what makes you think Ford is keeping their heads in the sand? the F-series is their best selling product but its not like they havent done anything in the last 47 years. the F-series is the nest egg that lets them invest in their global business because thats not going to bring in enough money to offset the F-series.

I'm not saying Ford is putting it's head in the sand - some of the contributors on here are. (not you)

If Japan and Korea were not evidence of what can happen I don't know what is - and China sure isn't going away.

 

[Gregs24]

Aside from the Mustang, Ford and child brands have not been competitive in the car market _here at home_. Look at their lineup: Trucks, SUV's, vans & cars. Lincoln has all SUV's since 2020.
The Mustang is the lone exception as it survived against the F-body and though sales are not setting the world on fire, Ford does stand behind it.

Ford is already getting their lunch money taken in the car market and Ram has made a serious play for the truck market that has stripped away a lot of truck buyers. Look at the Ram interiors, they are very nice, well thought out and attractive. Where Ram falls down is reliability in comparison to the F series - at least as a work truck. Ford did themselves no favors with the Lightning and Mach-e debacle and they will be shaking that off for years to come. So will GM & Ram, but Ford was already expensive for what you got, amortizing the EV "division" probably added another $5k to the cost per truck, and more on the top tier models. Ford is going to need to start belt tightening on the F series MSRP to be competitive and stay that way.

China is already taking Ford's lunch money in the car market, but while they're great at stealing ideas, intellectual property and copying designs, they're not exactly on par with Japanese cars QC.

And have Japanese truck makers cut into the market? Sure. But not so much on job sites. If China had a market busting F series competitor, we'd already know about it and there would be a hue and cry to get it. And we would get it, then test it by beating on it repeatedly; comparing to an F350 PSD and watch the Chineseum wonder rattle itself apart.

Ford is somewhat competitive in more captive markets where small cars are tolerated.

You're right that Ford should pursue competing in other markets but they need to be mindful of not bringing models to market that lose money per sale or are so costly as to price themselves out.




He's not wrong about Ford needing to compete globally, the other 2 of the big 3 do. Ford is very conservative about F series redesigns, and they can be a little over cautious sometimes. I understand the reticence to tinker with their bread and butter and that is a good thing but Ram has considerably eaten into the truck market shares and Ford would do well to take heed.

As we saw in Covid and the ensuing years, once the supply chain gets tanked, everything constricts, and we had vehicles made at the factory sitting around waiting for all manner of electronics, chips, hard parts, because the suppliers were interrupted. Look how long its taken to return to a semblance of normal.

100% agree.

Regarding crappy Chinese trucks, remember crappy Japanese cars and crappy Korean cars? It only took 15 years or so for that to be resolved.

 

[Zig]

No, you can just set it off for a custom mode. Which still requires an input starting the car.
Yea it would be very very rare for ford to do a backwards update to change a feature like that. Because they got the credits for it when the car was made, I don't think it's going to ever be changed.

The only thing I think they could do is look the other way if you have it disabled in forscan or hardware disabler, but most likely would use it to deny a warranty claim for something completely unrelated. (at least that's what I would suspect.)

Credits for what? Credits have been dissolved for the function.

 

[Zig]

No, you can just set it off for a custom mode. Which still requires an input starting the car.
Yea it would be very very rare for ford to do a backwards update to change a feature like that. Because they got the credits for it when the car was made, I don't think it's going to ever be changed.

The only thing I think they could do is look the other way if you have it disabled in forscan or hardware disabler, but most likely would use it to deny a warranty claim for something completely unrelated. (at least that's what I would suspect.)

Which still requires an input starting the car.

A multi step ignition is nothing more than flipping the switch, getting out, stepping around front, grabbing a handle and giving a crank.

 

[agreywolfe]

100% agree.

Regarding crappy Chinese trucks, remember crappy Japanese cars and crappy Korean cars? It only took 15 years or so for that to be resolved.

i dont think China is as big of a problem as you make them out to be. Not to say they arent a powerhouse, but specifically for the US market China has a bunch of things working against them that Japan and Korea had working for them. first off is China is a longstanding economic adversary to the US. multiple administrations (NOT BEING POLITICAL) have passed tariffs and import restrictions on Chinese goods whereas Japan and Korea started without those. additionally China has a massive domestic market rivaling that of the US, they have less need to expand globally like Japan and Korea did, lastly Chinas on an economic slowdown similar to what we saw with Japan in the 90's, thats only going to get exasperated with the upcoming population collapse resulting from the one child policy.

 

[Gregs24]

i dont think China is as big of a problem as you make them out to be. Not to say they arent a powerhouse, but specifically for the US market China has a bunch of things working against them that Japan and Korea had working for them. first off is China is a longstanding economic adversary to the US. multiple administrations (NOT BEING POLITICAL) have passed tariffs and import restrictions on Chinese goods whereas Japan and Korea started without those. additionally China has a massive domestic market rivaling that of the US, they have less need to expand globally like Japan and Korea did, lastly Chinas on an economic slowdown similar to what we saw with Japan in the 90's, thats only going to get exasperated with the upcoming population collapse resulting from the one child policy.

Maybe - maybe not. Neither of us have a crystal ball.

What I would say is China exported 8.8 million cars in 2025, up 30% on 2024, whether they need to expand or not, they are doing very quickly. I realise this is not to the US (yet) but just consider the scale of that, double the Ford production globally was exported in pure numbers!

Don't forget those Chinese companies can also build cars in the US at some point too, which gets around any tariffs or other restrictions. If that seems unlikely, remember Geely own Volvo who have a plant in the US already, it is very easy when you already own the plant to start production of other brands they own including under their own name. They platform share already within the Geely group so it would be VERY easy.

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Oh and the UK had quotas on Japanese cars in the 1970's and 1980's but it was easily overcome when Nissan, Toyota, Honda etc built plants in the UK.

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