93 v E30 v. E85

[ZXMustang]

Im running e30 on my roush car right now. Not that garbage pump e30 but actual 93 blended with E85. What people dont tell you is they blend the straight from the pump e30 with like 85 or 87. You need to manually blend it from e10 93 with e85. Easy to do and e30 takes 2-3* more spark than 93.

Here's also a tidbit for you. Anything past e50-60 doesnt make any more power than E85. Most folks think it does, but it doesnt. E85 is just more convenient to pump straight into the car rather than mixing e10 93 up to e50. Our cars in NA form at least, are very capable of running straight full E85 (with tune) and thats what most do since you drive up, pump it and go.

In reality you dont need that much octane and you wont get any more spark or make any more power from pump e10 93 blended to e50 as you would going straight to pump E85.

Now something C85 or one of those VP fuels with added oxygen or other goodies, they will make more than the delta from E50-E85.

The camaro guys are far more familiar with this problem since they dont get port injection from the factory and need to add meth on top of their DI system to get the fuel volume to run E50. Which is all you need for just about any street car.

Bottom line, e30 is a sweet spot for no tune extra knock protection, or for tuned "lets add some spark" performance. Not quite to the E50-85 level, but far beyond 93 only. My roush car take 19* like a champ on e30, but KRs at around 16ish on straight 93. Same with every other whipple and ESS car I've tuned.

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[ZXMustang]

Also, I run e30 on every single performance car i've owned for the last decade. Both stock, tuned and boosted. Never had an issue. No fuel system issues nothing.

 

[Q6543]

So well stated ZX

still so much misinformation after all these years, tough to correct all the brainwashing.

god forbid 800Hp cars don’t but a 4 thousand dolllar triple pump fore fuel system and a 2K set of ID1300s

it was one of the things that really sold me on the 24s in general, old school simplicity

 

[ZXMustang]

So well stated ZX

still so much misinformation after all these years, tough to correct all the brainwashing.

god forbid 800Hp cars don’t but a 4 thousand dolllar triple pump fore fuel system and a 2K set of ID1300s

it was one of the things that really sold me on the 24s in general, old school simplicity

For sure. The fuel volume needed for straight E on boosted cars is immense, and funny part when you get to that point most guys just buy drums of C85 or something exotic anyway LOL. So much for the convenience of pumping it straight in at that gas pump...lol

 

[Ninjak]

SO what is the formula for E30 by mixing? is 11gals of 93 and 5 of E85? I believe I saw a YouTube video on it....cannot remember

 

[ZXMustang]

SO what is the formula for E30 by mixing? is 11gals of 93 and 5 of E85? I believe I saw a YouTube video on it....cannot remember

get the e85cal app from your App Store and this is what it is for the mustang for a first fill up or an empty fill up. Don’t forget for any subsequent fill ups you need to account for the fact that you have e30 left in the tank unless you are literally almost empty.

you can adjust the calculator as needed. And if you need to know tank percent left put the car in track mode and it shows the gas gauge as percent left to empty. It’s pretty accurate.

best way to do this is pump in the e85 first. Then top off with 93. That will mix it well in the tank. I dont try to hit the mark on the pump gas to add, I just let the pump click off at full and its almost always dead on balls accurate.

 

[ZXMustang]

If you were to "update" your tune for e30, you would change the OEM stoich point from 14.08 to 13.00. For the s650 thats about perfect, but you dont need to do this unless your OCD compels you. And for stock cars, you can run this no tune and you will get every bit of spark that lord Ford has allowed you to have in a best-case scenario. I recommend this for anyone wanting to get the most from a stock tune and drag pack. If you want to make some hero runs untuned, do this, pull out weight and get some drag brakes and drag pack.

FYI, E40 is overkill (stock tune) and even tho only 10 more numbers higher, its a big jump in fuel demand and now you are skewing the fuel modeling quite a lot. And you wont get any more performance on a stock tune from e30->e40 no matter what the YT kids tell you.

Reality on stock tune, even e20 is a nice step up from e10 93 as long as you cut it with e10 93 and tested E85. That will be like running 95/96 octane over straight 93 - running e20.

 

[cbrtrx]

The car was a 3.25 pulley and headers, dynod over 900 wheel, both E30 and E85 tunes were from wengerd.

there was some D/A differential in the slower full E85 run but nothing crazy
E85

E30

The difference there is DA. Over 800 difference is substantial on a boosted car.

If I could make a perfect fuel for me it would be E70 using straight 93 octane mixed with E99 blended together. You get all the benefits but doesn't tax the fuel system as bad. I have no desire to blend custom fuels though. Yes gains after E50 are small but still there.

Pump E85 is approximately 80 percent ethanol and 20 percent 85 octane gasoline.

 

[ZXMustang]

The difference there is DA. Over 800 difference is substantial on a boosted car.

If I could make a perfect fuel for me it would be E70 using straight 93 octane mixed with E99 blended together. You get all the benefits but doesn't tax the fuel system as bad. I have no desire to blend custom fuels though. Yes gains after E50 are small but still there.

Pump E85 is approximately 80 percent ethanol and 20 percent 85 octane gasoline.

I run the E85 from GATE in Wesley chapel. It always tests over 85 to 90 and they run through it fast. All the local racers and exotics go there to get E. They have 93 as well, so I do the blend right there at one pump. There is another good E station the other way down 54 near odessa. I forget what its called, but they got really good E as well. Lots of guys local to us I know use both stations and test them religiously.

 

[cbrtrx]

Coming from the bmw world as well with so many DI failures I prefer to have a little less ethanol content. We use to run upper cylinder lubes in the gas to help with DI lubrication on those.

 

[robvas]

Gotta know what your local pumps e85 actual ethanol % is before you can know how much to mix

 

[Junkyard Dog]

It was at the cars n coffee from this past weekend. A young gentleman was talking about his GT500, and the power he was making, but he said it was on 93. Or at least that is what I thought he said. Then his buddy came over, and everyone was gathered around his drag car, and said, no, no, he is on E85. I mentioned, ahh ok. They spoke about it using E85 all the time and how they lived at the pump, and I mentioned: "What about doing E30?" That is when the entire conversation came up, and the NRHA guy started talking about how bad it was to do E30, and that it turns to sludge and whatnot.

He had a whole formula and mixing breakdown of how and why this happens, but honestly, I could not repeat any of it. I guess Robvas and this guy would have a great conversation about it. I do not have enough knowledge to debate whether it's true or not. But I did think, maybe this happens if you have old lines in the car....

But with older cars, that would happen on E85, too, not just E30.

 

[Junkyard Dog]

Im running e30 on my roush car right now. Not that garbage pump e30 but actual 93 blended with E85. What people dont tell you is they blend the straight from the pump e30 with like 85 or 87. You need to manually blend it from e10 93 with e85. Easy to do and e30 takes 2-3* more spark than 93.

Here's also a tidbit for you. Anything past e50-60 doesnt make any more power than E85. Most folks think it does, but it doesnt. E85 is just more convenient to pump straight into the car rather than mixing e10 93 up to e50. Our cars in NA form at least, are very capable of running straight full E85 (with tune) and thats what most do since you drive up, pump it and go.

In reality you dont need that much octane and you wont get any more spark or make any more power from pump e10 93 blended to e50 as you would going straight to pump E85.

Now something C85 or one of those VP fuels with added oxygen or other goodies, they will make more than the delta from E50-E85.

The camaro guys are far more familiar with this problem since they dont get port injection from the factory and need to add meth on top of their DI system to get the fuel volume to run E50. Which is all you need for just about any street car.

Bottom line, e30 is a sweet spot for no tune extra knock protection, or for tuned "lets add some spark" performance. Not quite to the E50-85 level, but far beyond 93 only. My roush car take 19* like a champ on e30, but KRs at around 16ish on straight 93. Same with every other whipple and ESS car I've tuned.

Just so I understand your post, when you say, "Anything past e50-60 doesnt make any more power than E85," you are talking about naturally aspirated, basically stock OEM cars with maybe headers and a tune, correct?

 

[Junkyard Dog]

I have never seen pump E30. I always thought folks were blending a few gallons of E85 with 93.

 

[Junkyard Dog]

If you were to "update" your tune for e30, you would change the OEM stoich point from 14.08 to 13.00. For the s650 thats about perfect, but you dont need to do this unless your OCD compels you. And for stock cars, you can run this no tune and you will get every bit of spark that lord Ford has allowed you to have in a best-case scenario. I recommend this for anyone wanting to get the most from a stock tune and drag pack. If you want to make some hero runs untuned, do this, pull out weight and get some drag brakes and drag pack.

FYI, E40 is overkill (stock tune) and even tho only 10 more numbers higher, its a big jump in fuel demand and now you are skewing the fuel modeling quite a lot. And you wont get any more performance on a stock tune from e30->e40 no matter what the YT kids tell you.

Reality on stock tune, even e20 is a nice step up from e10 93 as long as you cut it with e10 93 and tested E85. That will be like running 95/96 octane over straight 93 - running e20.

So does the stock tune on E30 adjust the OEM stoich point, or does the engine just run lean?

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