AT Shifting poorly when cold

[MNPony]

I've got 2300 miles on our S650 and I'm experiencing some strange shifting behavior when the car is cold. After starting the car and letting the idle settle, if I give it 1/3 to 1/2 throttle as I pull away, the transmission stumbles pretty badly between first and second and again between third and fourth gears. Once the car is fully warmed up it shifts completely normally. Anyone else experience this?

Sponsored

 

[Will2]

By "stumbles pretty badly" do you mean power drops off, then there's a pause before it catches the next gear and you suddenly get going again, with a slight jerk?

I do experience that at times (Ecoboost).

It's unfortunate Ford hasn't figured out these transmissions, as I had the the GM version (10L80 vs Ford's 10R80, co-developed) in a 2021 Camaro LT1 and that was perfect. Never any issues, felt at least as good as a ZF8. When these Ford 10R80s first came out, I drove an early 2018 Mustang GT Premium Convertible PP1 that had crazy jerking, felt like I was going to rear-end the cars near me when I shifted from R to D (such as right after backing out of a parking spot), or from 1-2. The transmission was clearly a work in progress. The current ones are improved, but I don't think Ford has truly perfected them.

 

[MNPony]

By "stumbles pretty badly" do you mean power drops off, then there's a pause before it catches the next gear and you suddenly get going again, with a slight jerk?

I do experience that at times (Ecoboost).

It's unfortunate Ford hasn't figured out these transmissions, as I had the the GM version (10L80 vs Ford's 10R80, co-developed) in a 2021 Camaro LT1 and that was perfect. Never any issues, felt at least as good as a ZF8. When these Ford 10R80s first came out, I drove an early 2018 Mustang GT Premium Convertible PP1 that had crazy jerking, felt like I was going to rear-end the cars near me when I shifted from R to D (such as right after backing out of a parking spot), or from 1-2. The transmission was clearly a work in progress. The current ones are improved, but I don't think Ford has truly perfected them.

Yep. Your description of how it acts is pretty much spot on

 

[smurfslayer]

I've got 2300 miles on our S650 and I'm experiencing some strange shifting behavior when the car is cold. After starting the car and letting the idle settle, if I give it 1/3 to 1/2 throttle as I pull away, the transmission stumbles pretty badly between first and second and again between third and fourth gears. Once the car is fully warmed up it shifts completely normally. Anyone else experience this?

Yes.

It's unfortunate Ford hasn't figured out these transmissions, as I had the the GM version (10L80 vs Ford's 10R80, co-developed) in a 2021 Camaro LT1 and that was perfect. Never any issues, felt at least as good as a ZF8. When these Ford 10R80s first came out, I drove an early 2018 Mustang GT Premium Convertible PP1 that had crazy jerking, felt like I was going to rear-end the cars near me when I shifted from R to D (such as right after backing out of a parking spot), or from 1-2. The transmission was clearly a work in progress. The current ones are improved, but I don't think Ford has truly perfected them.

I have a slightly different opinion. When the 10r80 is warming up, it shifts conservatively to protect itself, and it is programmed to behave this way. I 2x 10r80’s - ’17 Raptor and ’24 Dark Horse. I knew what to expect but once she’s warmed up, this thing shifts on a whole different plane than previous automatics I’ve had and ridden in.

The Raptor forum is replete “my bmw never did this” from all the newly well off seeking to upgrade.

So you can jump in a cold LT1, fire it up, floor it and it will shift perfectly? I’d like to see that. And if it’s really not an exaggeration, I need to head to trade school to learn to work on 10r80s because they’ll be failing in droves in short order if GM isn’t programming the same self protection in their transmissions.

Don’t hammer on it until it’s had a few minutes to get to operating temp or closer to it and once it gets there, then you can start driving it like you stole it.

Now, that said, I do agree Ford has left some effort on the table in programming the 10r80, in the trucks, and now the Mustang. I don’t want to draw a conclusion based alone on my Mustang, but, the Raptor crew universally pans the 10r80 programming. When I got my ’17 Rap, the first complaint I lodged was “transmission will not downshift from 10th above 42mph” I subsequently found it wouldn’t downshift from 8,9 or 10 under practically any condition. Reprogrammed and it worked well, but took 2 visits to get the stealership to do it. This on top of the over 100 miles Ford put on my Raptor new, as a “Random QA”. The dealer left me the punch list. Clunking, harsh shifts, inarticulate shifts - some call this hunting, erratic shifting.
I can make the truck to it by gassing until just the moment I think it’s going to upshift and then lifting in anticipation of the shift. About 1 in 3 times, I can make that inarticulate clunk happen, but it’s a rare thing in my truck. There are users who have had more severe shifting issues, sometimes repeat issues. I don’t know how much the internals have changed in 7 years but it seems that about ’20-’21, the truck programming seemed improved.

 

[MNPony]

Yes.



I have a slightly different opinion. When the 10r80 is warming up, it shifts conservatively to protect itself, and it is programmed to behave this way. I 2x 10r80’s - ’17 Raptor and ’24 Dark Horse. I knew what to expect but once she’s warmed up, this thing shifts on a whole different plane than previous automatics I’ve had and ridden in.

The Raptor forum is replete “my bmw never did this” from all the newly well off seeking to upgrade.

So you can jump in a cold LT1, fire it up, floor it and it will shift perfectly? I’d like to see that. And if it’s really not an exaggeration, I need to head to trade school to learn to work on 10r80s because they’ll be failing in droves in short order if GM isn’t programming the same self protection in their transmissions.

Don’t hammer on it until it’s had a few minutes to get to operating temp or closer to it and once it gets there, then you can start driving it like you stole it.

Now, that said, I do agree Ford has left some effort on the table in programming the 10r80, in the trucks, and now the Mustang. I don’t want to draw a conclusion based alone on my Mustang, but, the Raptor crew universally pans the 10r80 programming. When I got my ’17 Rap, the first complaint I lodged was “transmission will not downshift from 10th above 42mph” I subsequently found it wouldn’t downshift from 8,9 or 10 under practically any condition. Reprogrammed and it worked well, but took 2 visits to get the stealership to do it. This on top of the over 100 miles Ford put on my Raptor new, as a “Random QA”. The dealer left me the punch list. Clunking, harsh shifts, inarticulate shifts - some call this hunting, erratic shifting.
I can make the truck to it by gassing until just the moment I think it’s going to upshift and then lifting in anticipation of the shift. About 1 in 3 times, I can make that inarticulate clunk happen, but it’s a rare thing in my truck. There are users who have had more severe shifting issues, sometimes repeat issues. I don’t know how much the internals have changed in 7 years but it seems that about ’20-’21, the truck programming seemed improved.

Thanks for this reply. Just to clarify something though, I'm not anywhere close to "jumping on it" when this happens. It's literally at maybe a little more than 1/3 throttle when this happens. Think of it as accelerating moderately to blend into traffic.

 

[LoneRanger57]

My 2019 Ranger (25k mi) has the 10R80 and I tow a 4000lb travel trailer around the southwest and never experienced any of the problems people bring up here with the transmission but do admit in tow mode it drops 9th & 10th and is an 8 speed.
Don't know if it makes a difference but I'm really happy with the way it works

 

[smurfslayer]

Thanks for this reply. Just to clarify something though, I'm not anywhere close to "jumping on it" when this happens. It's literally at maybe a little more than 1/3 throttle when this happens. Think of it as accelerating moderately to blend into traffic.

Me too. Mustang did it to me yesterday when my wife wanted to go grab some dessert. Minimal warm up, hop in and go and yeah, some elongated shifts, and definitely not butter smooth. Until it warmed up.

 

[Ciulster]

From what I've been seeing just doing research at work the 10 speeds are very VERY picky about temperature. Apparently Mercon ULV was developed to help combat the "conservative shifts" while it was warming up, especially during cold weather and using the older Mercon LV can make cold shifts even clunkier, though a lot of F150 guys say that the transmission shifts even better with the LV in it when it is up to operating temp. There is just a very specific temperature and oil viscosity range that these transmissions really like to run at and that's kind of how they are it seems.

 

[LoneRanger57]

From what I've been seeing just doing research at work the 10 speeds are very VERY picky about temperature. Apparently Mercon ULV was developed to help combat the "conservative shifts" while it was warming up, especially during cold weather and using the older Mercon LV can make cold shifts even clunkier, though a lot of F150 guys say that the transmission shifts even better with the LV in it when it is up to operating temp. There is just a very specific temperature and oil viscosity range that these transmissions really like to run at and that's kind of how they are it seems.

Glad I live where it never snows and rarely gets below 40

 

[MAT1955]

@MNPony ..... I did not have to really warm-up my 2014 Mustang - BUT - the 2024 is a entirely different breed. Once warmed-up to normal operating temperature (easy to baseline from your available temperature display) the engine and transmission are spectacular. BUT - if anyone pushes the engine without warm-up they will get all kinds of noises, including the much talked about 2000rpm "rattle". As well as some strange noises and behaviors from the transmission, will also occur. It is imperative that the drive train hit normal operating temperatures before driving it like a Mustang. The engine in particular is a marvel with plasma coatings and exotic timings. In particular the S650 which any knowledgeable tech (and Ford execs) will tell you is a very different pony. It needs to be treated more like a race car that a Dodge Caravan. As my engine warms-up I can hear the sounds changing and little noises disappear minute-by-minute. I am NOT saying you do anything wrong at all this is just my opinion of what SHOULD be done.

 

[135Hoser]

Whats your ambient temp like? 24 Dorkhorse, when I turn the car on gear temp is usually 20c for the first few minutes. Backs out nicely from my driveway, then drives very predictably at slow speeds until I make it to a feeder road. No flaring, No delayed shifts

My only real complaint is whine from the engine bay, but that turns out to be caused by straight cut transmission oil pump gears.

I'll pay more attention tomorrow, it's entirely possible I'm driving around any deficiencies.

My 10R80 is very well mannered and I'm very happy with it.

EDIT: I do however have ongoing complaints with my rear diff and how it feels/noise it makes.

 

[krisk]

I have no complaints with the 10R80 in my 2024. It is definitely a more noticeable shift when cold, but once it gets warm it is really good.

Now, the 10R140 in my 2021 Super Duty does do as you described when cold. Also, shifting from reverse to drive when cold you often have to wait 2-3 seconds for the shift to actually happen, and don’t be drinking coffee or the violent jolt will send it all over you. Again, once up to operating temperature it is great, but cold I take it very easy.

 

[Skye]

until it’s had a few minutes to get to operating temp

picky about temperature.

It needs to be treated more like a race car that a Dodge Caravan.

^ This.

My Tremec MT is no different. Cold, she's a bit of a diva. Difficult shifting, often. Once warmed-up: bliss.

I'm generally pretty soft on my car until I get up to temps. Once fully-warm and everything is stable, it's a different car in sounds, shifts and other behaviors. And that makes sense to me. Ford and I'm sure other vendors have designed and assembled things to fit and work best when they are in their primary operating temperature range.

 

[MNPony]

I've experienced this issue when ambient temperature is 60F-85F. Again, I want to emphasize that in no way am I being aggressive with the car when this happens. A typical example is I start the car (ambient temperature 80F), let the idle settle after a minute or so, slowly work my way through a parking lot, then pull out and ease my way up to 50mph using moderate throttle input (definitely well below half throttle). Anything more than completely babying it and I get that stumble between the first few shifts.

 

[Skye]

If you feel you continue to experience things outside the norm, one thing I always recommend on the auto is checking the fluid level. Sometimes, from the factory fill, settling, etc., cars are low and need to be topped up. While having that checked, you could discuss the symptoms with the Service Advisor.

Sponsored