Rant after driving a M2 and M3

[kagemusha2662]

You do realize if the mustang is killed off, its not good for the workers at the flat Rock plant right?

Guess what? Camaro and Challenger were killed so no, GM and Dodge couldn't make it work out. But the foreign competitors still have theirs. Wonder why lol

If I were Ford, I'd raise the price until it breaks even since the economy is in the tank. Or Id raise it a good amount and use the capital to invest in the s750 for 2030. Which they could be doing.

I saw an interview not long ago where the designers of the 2024 mustang said they wanted to lower the whole car and the roof/body lines, but they didn't have the resources. So that may be the future. A higher end mustang. And they could be prepping the consumer right now for higher cost mustangs. I'm sure they've hammered out a strategy.

Put them to work on a worthwhile project then. Whenever the Mustang does die, move them to something that’ll make money and make more of that. It’s funny how you’re trying to villainize me for wanting workers to be paid a fair wage and wanting a fair price for the consumer as well like that’s impossible. And again, if a business dies, then the business dies. If a product dies, then the product dies. A consumer should not have to think about that stuff at all, they only care about the price. All everyone has been talking about is the price and saying how that’s gonna price out people. It’s up to the business to figure out how to keep the product profitable with their ever increasing costs. Plenty of car models have died before.
On the higher price tier. If that’s the case, I wish ford luck with competing against the other sports cars of the world. This will be the last Mustang I buy, and I know I’m not alone in that thought. I also know most consumers are not gonna rush to get a Mustang at this price. It’s a different world, and there are lots of options out there.

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[Mustang1987]

Put them to work on a worthwhile project then. Whenever the Mustang does die, move them to something that’ll make money and make more of that. It’s funny how you’re trying to villainize me for wanting workers to be paid a fair wage and wanting a fair price for the consumer as well like that’s impossible. And again, if a business dies, then the business dies. If a product dies, then the product dies. A consumer should not have to think about that stuff at all, they only care about the price. All everyone has been talking about is the price and saying how that’s gonna price out people. It’s up to the business to figure out how to keep the product profitable with their ever increasing costs. Plenty of car models have died before.
On the higher price tier. If that’s the case, I wish ford luck with competing against the other sports cars of the world. This will be the last Mustang I buy, and I know I’m not alone in that thought. I also know most consumers are not gonna rush to get a Mustang at this price. It’s a different world, and there are lots of options out there.

I'm not villainizing you, you're the one that called me a corporate shill because I know how business works and that if you raise wages 33%-140%, then your prices will be a lot higher. It's really that simple.

 

[Dragster]

If I were Ford, I'd raise the price until it breaks even since the economy is in the tank. Or Id raise it a good amount and use the capital to invest in the s750 for 2030. Which they could be doing.

They're not selling many as it is, if they keep raising the price they won't sell any. And let's be real, this platform has been around for 11 model years now with very little development outside of the Coyote, so I have to imagine that they're already keeping costs on the lower end. Hell, in just the last two model years they've gotten rid of wireless charging, split out the B&O sound system, and changed the fenders from aluminum to steel, all to lower costs.

I saw an interview not long ago where the designers of the 2024 mustang said they wanted to lower the whole car and the roof/body lines, but they didn't have the resources. So that may be the future. A higher end mustang. And they could be prepping the consumer right now for higher cost mustangs. I'm sure they've hammered out a strategy.

I don't have an issue with moving the Mustang upmarket if they make some substantial changes to justify it (aluminum structure, better materials, better overall build quality, etc.). Ideally it would be great if they had a lower cost option and a more premium one, but the market for this type of car isn't what it used to be and the development costs are huge (hence why Toyota partnered with Subaru for the 86 and BMW for the Supra) so I don't see Ford investing in a new ICE performance car platform that would slot below an upmarket Mustang.

 

[kagemusha2662]

I'm not villainizing you, you're the one that called me a corporate shill because I know how business works and that if you raise wages 33%-140%, then your prices will be a lot higher. It's really that simple.

And law of supply and demand is simple. Demand for the Mustang will go down and people will move onto cheaper options. Power to the consumer. Surely you as a business owner would understand that part of it.

 

[Mustang1987]

And law of supply and demand is simple. Demand for the Mustang will go down and people will move onto cheaper options. Power to the consumer. Surely you as a business owner would understand that part of it.

Exactly, and the American product dies off, American workers get laid off, and business and capital goes overseas.

This is what we don't want to happen.

 

[Q6543]

Labor is only something like 4% of the total cost of the vehicle
And ALL the other non UAW manufacturers got HUGE raises last fall too.

the UAW locks in and then Honda, Toyota, VW etc all get a big pay bump.

iirc it added less than $500 all in per vehicle with the last contract.

Don’t the people complaining want to make more money at their jobs?

 

[Mustang1987]

They're not selling many as it is, if they keep raising the price they won't sell any. And let's be real, this platform has been around for 11 model years now with very little development outside of the Coyote, so I have to imagine that they're already keeping costs on the lower end. Hell, in just the last two model years they've gotten rid of wireless charging, split out the B&O sound system, and changed the fenders from aluminum to steel, all to lower costs.


I don't have an issue with moving the Mustang upmarket if they make some substantial changes to justify it (aluminum structure, better materials, better overall build quality, etc.). Ideally it would be great if they had a lower cost option and a more premium one, but the market for this type of car isn't what it used to be and the development costs are huge (hence why Toyota partnered with Subaru for the 86 and BMW for the Supra) so I don't see Ford investing in a new ICE performance car platform that would slot below an upmarket Mustang.

I like the idea of a higher end mustang too. I've always said it's hard to compete with Corvette when you have to have a $32k base car, which they don't. Could be the plan.

 

[kagemusha2662]

Labor is only something like 4% of the total cost of the vehicle
And ALL the other non UAW manufacturers got HUGE raises last fall too.

the UAW locks in and then Honda, Toyota, VW etc all get a big pay bump.

iirc it added less than $500 all in per vehicle with the last contract.

Don’t the people complaining want to make more money at their jobs?

If that number you mentioned is correct then that completely dismantles what mustang1987 has been saying the whole time about the wages being the reason increasing the price of the car

 

[Q6543]

Facts don’t fit his narrative, probably a bot account now that I think about it.

 

[Mustang1987]

If that number you mentioned is correct then that completely dismantles what mustang1987 has been saying the whole time about the wages being the reason increasing the price of the car

It proves me correct, because it went up from $43k to $45k, and we figured out inflation was $1300 per vehicle.

Remember you were complaining about the few hundred dollars? Well there it is.

 

[Mustang1987]

Facts don’t fit his narrative, probably a bot account now that I think about it.

I'm a bot account because inflation and the union deal added $2k to the price?

Inflation is a real thing. Your car didn't go up in price as much as your food.

 

[kagemusha2662]

It proves me correct, because it went up from $43k to $45k, and we figured out inflation was $1300 per vehicle.

Remember you were complaining about the few hundred dollars? Well there it is.

So explain how taking away colors and making packages more expensive plays into the calculations? Explain how if you spec the same exact car it’ll come out to 4-5k more than last year? Your argument about layoffs and wages destroying the company also relies on the fact that ford is barely making money as it is. It’s still a massively profitable business. Am I supposed to cry that they are gonna lose x% of their profit?

 

[kagemusha2662]

I'm a bot account because inflation and the union deal added $2k to the price?

Inflation is a real thing. Your car didn't go up in price as much as your food.

Also with this food thing. I think you’re forgetting the one reason why people don’t complain as much about food inflation (and they still do because it’s valid) is because food is required to live. Do you need a mustang to live?

 

[kagemusha2662]

Labor is only something like 4% of the total cost of the vehicle
And ALL the other non UAW manufacturers got HUGE raises last fall too.

the UAW locks in and then Honda, Toyota, VW etc all get a big pay bump.

iirc it added less than $500 all in per vehicle with the last contract.

Don’t the people complaining want to make more money at their jobs?

Using this number, if labor is 4% of a vehicle and the cost of it went up to 8%. Apply that number to the 25 BILLION dollar profit that ford had last year. Am I supposed to shed tears for a company that is pulling in billions in revenue @Mustang1987 ? Please cry me a river defending this insanely massive company

 

[Mustang1987]

So explain how taking away colors and making packages more expensive plays into the calculations? Explain how if you spec the same exact car it’ll come out to 4-5k more than last year? Your argument about layoffs and wages destroying the company also relies on the fact that ford is barely making money as it is. It’s still a massively profitable business. Am I supposed to cry that they are gonna lose x% of their profit?

I don't have their books and neither do you. But I do know GM and Stellantis couldn't make it work, so they decided they had to scrap it all together.

I don't care if you cry or not lol I have no stocks in ford or you.

You're acting like I owe you answers lmao Go buy another car. I promise you it doesn't matter to me

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