MotorTrend S650 GT First Test Review

[Twin Turbo]

Complaints about the steering aside, this is a good review

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[JamesAnd]

He mentions about long gearing. Not sure why manufacturers do this? Porsche do the same. Not particulary helpful on a road car when when 2nd gear tops out at around 90mph.

Anyway interesting to see what of that Mustang remains in tact this side of the pond, by the time the committee of bureaucrats have had their way.

 

[Dave2013M3]

Back in 2018, the MT82D4 came about with the tall gearing so the Mustang GT can avoid the Gas Guzzler tax. For the 2024 Mustang GT we still got the Gas Guzzler tax even with the taller ratios of the D4. At this point they should just put the Tremec in all the 5.0l Mustgangs.

 

[jimgt2k24]

Nice Detroit accent lol

 

[Desmodeous]

"The steering is a joke" - MotorTrend.
"If they total the car, then they have a reason to buy another one!" - Ford (probably)

 

[Dave2013M3]

BTW, I think a lot of steering feel complaints are partially due to the tire choice. The PZeros have noticeably less feel than the Mich PS4S that preceded it. Not to mention the puny sizing.

 

[OppoLock]

BTW, I think a lot of steering feel complaints are partially due to the tire choice. The PZeros have noticeably less feel than the Mich PS4S that preceded it. Not to mention the puny sizing.

That's interesting, because the PS4S routinely tests less favorably versus other UUHPs in terms of subjective handling feedback; its claim to fame has always been its jack-of-all ability to put up strong objective numbers, ride well, and wear well, not the feedback it delivers nor the stiffness of its construction. The PZ4s are typically rated very well subjectively, but I think the Mustang community especially hates Pirelli as a brand because of the awful P-Zeros that ford stuck with (an older model/compound to the PZ4) for the better part of a decade, which WAS a terrible tire, subjectively and objectively, versus like rubber for the time, like the PSS and PS4S that both came out during its lifespan. Nobody scorns Pirellis like the Mustang crowd.

I think the bottom line is that the Mustang is just simply once again poorly engineered for steering feedback. The only quality-steering examples are the Shelbies/M1/DH which all have different geometry, much stiffer rates, and much stiffer, track-ready compound tires (plus other misc. features in things like the Shelbies, like the carbon composite front subframes). That last bit's another distinction that gets muddied up here; it's the hard, stiff sidewalls and aggressive compounds of the hi-po models, not the extreme widths, that contribute to improved feel (not that you or anyone ITT has implied that, just soapboxing here).

Here's a video for reference with timestamp to conclusion. There's follow up feedback for the PS4 and PS4S a little later on:

Additional PZ4 feedback @ 4:16, more praise for how it felt.
PS4 feedback @4:30
PS4S feedback @ 5:45

 

[Evo1986]

Nice review, but to me it is not relevant and shouldn't be for us Europeans in general because neither the BHP (assumption) nor the 0-60 data etc. will equal to that in the US.

In other words: We need to wait for the proper tets on Europeans streets with the respective data.

One thing that I am a bit suprised tho is that he complains about the steering. Wasn't that one of the few things that Ford supposedely have done better compared to the S550?

 

[5.0ALM]

This guy must have a man crush on Thomas Holland (ala Throttle House).
Some of his commentary is almost word-for-word from what TH said 2 months ago.
There was nothing new in this.

 

[Taniis94]

Fords always had the issue with steering... but productivity in the beginning always has issues, I wouldn't consider it serious issues

 

[Twin Turbo]

Nice review, but to me it is not relevant and shouldn't be for us Europeans in general because neither the BHP (assumption) nor the 0-60 data etc. will equal to that in the US.

In other words: We need to wait for the proper tets on Europeans streets with the respective data.

One thing that I am a bit suprised tho is that he complains about the steering. Wasn't that one of the few things that Ford supposedely have done better compared to the S550?

Personally, I disagree. If you buy a car based on numbers and data, a Mustang isn't for you. If you want a brash, unashamedly loud n lairy RWD V8 coupe with a huge personality, then you want a pony car. And the choice just narrowed down to one.

Maybe that's just me

 

[Twin Turbo]

Regarding the steering........there's a video out there (I'll try and find it again) where an engineer was asked about the steering. I'm paraphrasing, but he effectively said "if I was a betting man, I'd say changes to improve the steering will be make during the car's lifecycle".

That, to me, means they already are working on improving it. Whether that'll be quietly introduced for a Job 2 or next model year, or possible for a future refresh, only time will tell.

 

[Dave2013M3]

That's interesting, because the PS4S routinely tests less favorably versus other UUHPs in terms of subjective handling feedback; its claim to fame has always been its jack-of-all ability to put up strong objective numbers, ride well, and wear well, not the feedback it delivers nor the stiffness of its construction. The PZ4s are typically rated very well subjectively, but I think the Mustang community especially hates Pirelli as a brand because of the awful P-Zeros that ford stuck with (an older model/compound to the PZ4) for the better part of a decade, which WAS a terrible tire, subjectively and objectively, versus like rubber for the time, like the PSS and PS4S that both came out during its lifespan. Nobody scorns Pirellis like the Mustang crowd.

I think the bottom line is that the Mustang is just simply once again poorly engineered for steering feedback. The only quality-steering examples are the Shelbies/M1/DH which all have different geometry, much stiffer rates, and much stiffer, track-ready compound tires (plus other misc. features in things like the Shelbies, like the carbon composite front subframes). That last bit's another distinction that gets muddied up here; it's the hard, stiff sidewalls and aggressive compounds of the hi-po models, not the extreme widths, that contribute to improved feel (not that you or anyone ITT has implied that, just soapboxing here).

Here's a video for reference with timestamp to conclusion. There's follow up feedback for the PS4 and PS4S a little later on:

Additional PZ4 feedback @ 4:16, more praise for how it felt.
PS4 feedback @4:30
PS4S feedback @ 5:45

You know with the BMW M4 and M2 crowd its the opposite. Everyone is complaining about the Z4s vs. the Mich PS4S. BMWs aren't known for their steering anymore, after the E92 BMW is in the same boat as the Mustang. Numb steering. Everyone feels the Z4s made it worse than the PS4S.

What is sad is that Ford knows how to do good steering. Anyone that ever drove a FoST or FiST or an Focus RS, these cars have awesome steering.

For me as long as the steering isn't worse than the S550 I won't have an issue with it. Although it is disappointing.

 

[Upacurb]

You know with the BMW M4 and M2 crowd its the opposite. Everyone is complaining about the Z4s vs. the Mich PS4S. BMWs aren't known for their steering anymore, after the E92 BMW is in the same boat as the Mustang. Numb steering. Everyone feels the Z4s made it worse than the PS4S.

What is sad is that Ford knows how to do good steering. Anyone that ever drove a FoST or FiST or an Focus RS, these cars have awesome steering.

For me as long as the steering isn't worse than the S550 I won't have an issue with it. Although it is disappointing.

What drives me crazy is that Ford can make the steering right in the Mustang too.....

I mean the GT350R came in second for Motor Trend best drivers car - where steering was praised
Granted they also tramline ...but I would think Ford could have sprinkled some of that fairy dust into the S650

Even Throttle House praised the steering feel....

Granted steering feel in my S550 PP1 was nothing to write home about either- but just why didnt Ford do something ....

 

[Dave2013M3]

What drives me crazy is that Ford can make the steering right in the Mustang too.....

I mean the GT350R came in second for Motor Trend best drivers car - where steering was praised
Granted they also tramline ...but I would think Ford could have sprinkled some of that fairy dust into the S650

Even Throttle House praised the steering feel....

Granted steering feel in my S550 PP1 was nothing to write home about either- but just why didnt Ford do something ....

This was the biggest issue I had when I bought my PP1 car. The steering just felt off after driving an E92 M3 for 10 years as well as having a FiST as a daily. I chased after it with the Ford Performance Track kit, 10" wide wheels with 285/35/19 front tires and it really didn't help. I got used to it, but I remember when they were discussing the S650 that they would improve the steering.

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