RPM redline on Tune?

[ChitownStang]

So I've decided what tune I'm ordering and I was taking to the tuner today, yeah I said it, talking on phone.to tuner..lol
I was asking lots of questions and one that came up was redline limit. I think he said they raise it to ~8500. I said woah! what do you guys think is safe for a manual Dark Horse?

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[erocker]

I'm sure it can go that high, but for how long? Personally, I'd leave my redline stock.

 

[ChitownStang]

I'm sure it can go that high, but for how long? Personally, I'd leave my redline stock.

Yeah, I may do 7800 max
Just wondering what others have done or think the gen 4 safely handles NA
Are you still pulling at that level?
On a manual, more rpm’s is actually a very usable upgrade imo. But I have no interest in pushing so high that there’s a chance to blow the engine.

 

[Q6543]

Raising redline is more about safety for the engine… it’s better to float valves north of 8k then to hit the rev limiter for longevity.

i.e. the 7800 rpm rev limiter is harder on the engine than 8500rpm is

 

[ChitownStang]

Raising redline is more about safety for the engine… it’s better to float valves north of 8k then to hit the rev limiter for longevity.

i.e. the 7800 rpm rev limiter is harder on the engine than 8500rpm is

Ok, now I'm really confused.
What is too many rpm’s for our cars then?

 

[Cz_Ziemniak]

Me, personally, the rev limit is the one verboten thing I would not be comfortable touching on a car. I understand some cars can handle it, and obviously some people build motors to accommodate it, but unless you're tearing the motor apart I would advise against it.

The tuner likely wants to raise the limit because that's where the peak power will be. He'll show you that number and go "look, it makes 40 extra horsepower!" Impressive figure, for sure, but its not really useable day to day. It would make more sense if he could find 40 extra around 3000-6000 rpm while leaving the top end alone, if thats possible.

Either way, I personally would not go above an 8,000 rpm limit if you want to raise it. I'm fairly certain that a stock DH bottom ends can handle that, hell I've seen stock gen 3's raise the limit to 8,000, and the DH motor is certainly stronger.

 

[Junkyard Dog]

There are claims that the cars pick up power and reduce e.t. at 8000 rpm as compared to stock.

I can't recall if anybody posted any objective measurements.

This is especially true, however, for forced induction cars, as the blower pushes more air at higher rpm. There are lots of dyno charts to look at and see higher horsepower with rpm going back to the 6th generation Mustang.

As for safety, um, I don't know. There is more stress on the internal parts under full throttle that increases substantially with rpm, that is, in a higher than linear fashion. Whether the Coyote is built to take those stresses and at what rpm remains to be seen. The engineers at Ford put the redline and automatic shift points where they are for a reason. As with anything in tuning, we start pushing those boundaries a little to see whether we can get more performance. Raising the rpm redline and shift points is just one of the areas where the tune changes things and pushes outside the envelope that the Ford engineers deemed safe for warrantied automobiles, where Ford would bear the cost of repair.

 

[Cz_Ziemniak]

Raising the rpm redline and shift points is just one of the areas where the tune changes things and pushes outside the envelope that the Ford engineers deemed safe for warrantied automobiles, where Ford would bear the cost of repair.

For sure, though I suspect Ford also is running a leaner AFR for emissions. If you dial the AFR a little richer, and theres no float, I think an additional 500 rpm won't be an issue, just my $.02. But 500 rpm is so not worth the risk, hahah.

 

[Junkyard Dog]

. But 500 rpm is so not worth the risk, hahah.

I do not have enough information to draw any conclusions about that risk assessment.

 

[ChitownStang]

Me, personally, the rev limit is the one verboten thing I would not be comfortable touching on a car. I understand some cars can handle it, and obviously some people build motors to accommodate it, but unless you're tearing the motor apart I would advise against it.

The tuner likely wants to raise the limit because that's where the peak power will be. He'll show you that number and go "look, it makes 40 extra horsepower!" Impressive figure, for sure, but its not really useable day to day. It would make more sense if he could find 40 extra around 3000-6000 rpm while leaving the top end alone, if thats possible.

Either way, I personally would not go above an 8,000 rpm limit if you want to raise it. I'm fairly certain that a stock DH bottom ends can handle that, hell I've seen stock gen 3's raise the limit to 8,000, and the DH motor is certainly stronger.

Yeah, I’m not looking to squeeze every HP out of the engine , just looking for more torque in the mid range when I run E.
No drag racing here.
But if it’s safe to get a few hundred rpm’s then this is actually really nice on a manual if you are banging through the gears, 3rd and 4th would be more usable on highway.

 

[Cz_Ziemniak]

I do not have enough information to draw any conclusions about that risk assessment.

My opinion just comes from the previous generations of Coyote. Theres plenty of dudes out there hitting 6 digits on their odometer running raised redline tunes, probably safe to run a more conservative tune on a DH motor.

 

[Junkyard Dog]

Yeah, I’m not looking to squeeze every HP out of the engine , just looking for more torque in the mid range when I run E.
No drag racing here.
But if it’s safe to get a few hundred rpm’s then this is actually really nice on a manual if you are banging through the gears, 3rd and 4th would be more usable on highway.

Long tube headers give a large boost in mid range torque. Only 15 horsepower or so at peak, but the torque boost in the mid range (3200-3500) is easily twice that, and that is with no tuning. It might be even better with tuning, especially on E85.

 

[ChitownStang]

Long tube headers give a large boost in mid range torque. Only 15 horsepower or so at peak, but the torque boost in the mid range (3200-3500) is easily twice that, and that is with no tuning. It might be even better with tuning, especially on E85.

Thanks but headers aren’t an option for me with emissions, volume and cost of installation bang for buck.

 

[robvas]

Long tube headers give a large boost in mid range torque. Only 15 horsepower or so at peak, but the torque boost in the mid range (3200-3500) is easily twice that, and that is with no tuning. It might be even better with tuning, especially on E85.

Graph to show the difference

 

[Junkyard Dog]

That is the exact graph I was looking at, but somebody tell that DRP dude to hold his camera down level with the screen and then maybe focus it? Within seconds of that screen shot somewhere you can see the scale on the left side. You can kind of get an idea with the scale on the right side.

Like I said, around 30 lb ft around 3200 rpm, and that is with no tuning. I would venture a guess that most could feel that driving around town.

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