Rear spring Isolator

[TheGrabberBlueGT2024]

Someone stuffed up. Springs should be installed symetrically. Perhaps when they fix it they'll double check those insulators

Going to the shop Wednesday morning

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[krisk]

I hope so. Now im getting a clunk when I turn my steering wheel now which is really weird as it hasn’t done that at all until today lol the frustration of modding a car

It shouldn’t be making noise when turning. I’d check to be sure they didn’t install one of the front springs upside down as well. It could also be the upper strut mount and thrust bearing weren’t seated correctly on the spring.

The springs are installed wrong. One will have to be flipped

They installed your driver’s side rear spring upside down. I’m not sure how a shop could have missed that; the spring seats don’t mate up to the spring if it is upside down as you can see in your photo.

 

[TheGrabberBlueGT2024]

It shouldn’t be making noise when turning. I’d check to be sure they didn’t install one of the front springs upside down as well. It could also be the upper strut mount and thrust bearing weren’t seated correctly on the spring.

They installed your driver’s side rear spring upside down. I’m not sure how a shop could have missed that. The spring seats don’t mate up to the spring if it is upside down as you can see in your photo.

Not sure either. Shop is very highly rated. We are all human of course so I will withhold any judgement. I know I for sure have made mistakes at work.

 

[krisk]

Not sure either. Shop is very highly rated. We are all human of course so I will withhold any judgement. I know I for sure have made mistakes at work.

Absolutely true. I’ve installed a spring upside down before, and when I realized it, I wondered how in the world I made that mistake. As long as they fix it you shouldn’t have any trouble other than being out time for the second visit.

 

[D/\rK•650]

I agree they look like they were installed 2 different ways. One with coils bound at top and other with coils bound at bottom. Should be same both sides. I think that would definitely change the spring rates through travel, and proper functionality.

 

[TheGrabberBlueGT2024]

I agree they look like they were installed 2 different ways. One with coils bound at top and other with coils bound at bottom. Should be same both sides. I think that would definitely change the spring rates through travel, and proper functionality.

Im surprised I couldn’t tell otherwise glad i did the isolators today

 

[TheGrabberBlueGT2024]

It shouldn’t be making noise when turning. I’d check to be sure they didn’t install one of the front springs upside down as well. It could also be the upper strut mount and thrust bearing weren’t seated correctly on the spring.

They installed your driver’s side rear spring upside down. I’m not sure how a shop could have missed that; the spring seats don’t mate up to the spring if it is upside down as you can see in your photo.

I agree they look like they were installed 2 different ways. One with coils bound at top and other with coils bound at bottom. Should be same both sides. I think that would definitely change the spring rates through travel, and proper functionality.

All is well he apologized on the rear springs and mentioned my subframe with the irs alignment kit gave him such a hard time he mistakenly did that while put everything in. The popping noise was my camber plates he crafted some spacers because they were causing my springs to bind.

 

[krisk]

All is well he apologized on the rear springs and mentioned my subframe with the irs alignment kit gave him such a hard time he mistakenly did that while put everything in. The popping noise was my camber plates he crafted some spacers because they were causing my springs to bind.

Glad to hear they got it sorted out. Mistakes happen, and as long as they own up to it and make it right, then I’d have no problem using them again. No shop, or any business for that matter, is going to have 100% perfection; how they handle their mistakes says a lot about them.

 

[TheGrabberBlueGT2024]

Glad to hear they got it sorted out. Mistakes happen, and as long as they own up to it and make it right, then I’d have no problem using them again. No shop, or any business for that matter, is going to have 100% perfection; how they handle their mistakes says a lot about them.

Couldn’t agree more. Onward to more mods.

 

[Garcia172]

I agree they look like they were installed 2 different ways. One with coils bound at top and other with coils bound at bottom. Should be same both sides. I think that would definitely change the spring rates through travel, and proper functionality.

Won't change the spring rates (it's a dual rate spring but since it's coil bound, it's effectively a single rate spring since the bound coils are essentially a spacer). But It may seat the spring differently which if not seated properly would be an issue.

 

[D/\rK•650]

Won't change the spring rates (it's a dual rate spring but since it's coil bound, it's effectively a single rate spring since the bound coils are essentially a spacer). But It may seat the spring differently which if not seated properly would be an issue.

If it's a dual rate spring and one is installed upside down why wouldn't that cause the rates to be off ? Soft rate at top harder rate at bottom, I think that might mess it up. If its essential a spacer i would think it woukd still mess up the travels being one upside down. Let me say im not a suspension expert. Im just talking from experience from my ATV.

 

[Garcia172]

If it's a dual rate spring and one is installed upside down why wouldn't that cause the rates to be off ? Soft rate at top harder rate at bottom, I think that might mess it up. If its essential a spacer i would think it woukd still mess up the travels being one upside down. Let me say im not a suspension expert. Im just talking from experience from my ATV.

A dual rate spring has exactly what that means two different rates, on each portion of the spring.

Think of motorcycle shock that has multiple springs on it separated by spacers. Each one has a different stiffness. The The lightest one compresses first until it coil binds then the next softest spring, and then the stiffest one compressing last... Pretty much the same thing except they can make one spring with different spring rates on the same spring.

In this particular case the rates are so far apart that you can see it by the different windings.

If you take that dual rate spring and put it into a spring compressor, outside the car... upside down or right side up it's still going to compress the light portion of the spring first and then once that coil binds it's going to go into the heavy portion of the spring and then that portion will start to compress.

It doesn't matter if the spring is right side up or upside down, it's going to compress exactly the same way.

The only issue with it being upside down or right side up, would be if ID or OD of the spring is different on one side from the other. And the reason would matter is because the seating surfaces could potentially have a different diameter ID or OD, because some spring seating surfaces will have a male portion (or a "cup" etc...) that the spring slides over or fit into..., in order to keep the spring in the proper position and seated properly.

I'm not familiar with the S650 rear spring seating surfaces or the actual rear spring. But there could be an issue based on the above concerns (the potential differences in the ID/OD spring dimensions and the respective seating surfaces).

But if the spring dimensions are the same on both ends (ID/OD) the spring orientation doesn't matter.

In this case because the light portion of the spring is already coil bound when the car is sitting statically... The portion that is already coil bound becomes essentially a spacer and you're basically running a single rate spring.

Maybe there's something I don't understand but it doesn't really make any sense you might as well just put a longer single rate spring and get rid of the coil binding. I guess maybe when it goes from full extension and starts to compress, the compression spring rate is different until it coil binds the light portion of the spring. But from a static height and you hit a bump, ,then it's single rate. Speculation ... it's past my pay grade. Need a spring manufacturer/engineer to step in here...

There's probably going to be some noise going on if they don't use those plastic things that go around the coils because of the constant coil bind/unbinding/binding again, but I don't know because I've never run springs like that in any of my street cars or in any of the race cars. In race cars if we use a tender spring they're flattened and designed to just compress with a trivial spring rate, and the purpose of that is simply to hold the spring in position when the suspension is at full extension.

I'm not sure that really matters much other than it's certainly not going to be much of a dual rate spring.

The only thing I can see from that is that if you're having a dual rate spring in the front and essentially a single rate spring in the rear.... is kind of a screwy setup. Additionally, the shocks don't have rebound/compression adjustments, so you're changing the spring rates (stiffer) and the bump stops with a stiffer composition bump stop, all with the same shock valving. That most certainly will result in a more "bouncy" ride, the degree to which depends on how much stiffer the spring rates/bumps stops are over the existing damping rates.

Hope this helps

 

[D/\rK•650]

Thank you i understand what you mean.

 

[RoninGSX]

A dual rate spring has exactly what that means two different rates, on each portion of the spring.

Think of motorcycle shock that has multiple springs on it separated by spacers. Each one has a different stiffness. The The lightest one compresses first until it coil binds then the next softest spring, and then the stiffest one compressing last... Pretty much the same thing except they can make one spring with different spring rates on the same spring.

In this particular case the rates are so far apart that you can see it by the different windings.

If you take that dual rate spring and put it into a spring compressor, outside the car... upside down or right side up it's still going to compress the light portion of the spring first and then once that coil binds it's going to go into the heavy portion of the spring and then that portion will start to compress.

It doesn't matter if the spring is right side up or upside down, it's going to compress exactly the same way.

The only issue with it being upside down or right side up, would be if ID or OD of the spring is different on one side from the other. And the reason would matter is because the seating surfaces could potentially have a different diameter ID or OD, because some spring seating surfaces will have a male portion (or a "cup" etc...) that the spring slides over or fit into..., in order to keep the spring in the proper position and seated properly.

I'm not familiar with the S650 rear spring seating surfaces or the actual rear spring. But there could be an issue based on the above concerns (the potential differences in the ID/OD spring dimensions and the respective seating surfaces).

But if the spring dimensions are the same on both ends (ID/OD) the spring orientation doesn't matter.

In this case because the light portion of the spring is already coil bound when the car is sitting statically... The portion that is already coil bound becomes essentially a spacer and you're basically running a single rate spring.

Maybe there's something I don't understand but it doesn't really make any sense you might as well just put a longer single rate spring and get rid of the coil binding. I guess maybe when it goes from full extension and starts to compress, the compression spring rate is different until it coil binds the light portion of the spring. But from a static height and you hit a bump, ,then it's single rate. Speculation ... it's past my pay grade. Need a spring manufacturer/engineer to step in here...

There's probably going to be some noise going on if they don't use those plastic things that go around the coils because of the constant coil bind/unbinding/binding again, but I don't know because I've never run springs like that in any of my street cars or in any of the race cars. In race cars if we use a tender spring they're flattened and designed to just compress with a trivial spring rate, and the purpose of that is simply to hold the spring in position when the suspension is at full extension.

I'm not sure that really matters much other than it's certainly not going to be much of a dual rate spring.

The only thing I can see from that is that if you're having a dual rate spring in the front and essentially a single rate spring in the rear.... is kind of a screwy setup. Additionally, the shocks don't have rebound/compression adjustments, so you're changing the spring rates (stiffer) and the bump stops with a stiffer composition bump stop, all with the same shock valving. That most certainly will result in a more "bouncy" ride, the degree to which depends on how much stiffer the spring rates/bumps stops are over the existing damping rates.

Hope this helps

I'm by no means a spring expert, but I do a lot of auto cross and I can most definitely tell you that having a spring installed upside down DOES affect how a car behaves. Especially having the springs opposing each other like what was posted by Grabber. By having them flipped like what was posted, you can upset the roll center of the car UNLESS the spring rate changes at exactly the same point no matter the direction.

The rest of what you said seems on point about dual rates, etc. Also, why they designed the spring the be damn near bound under normal compression is beyond me unless they wanted an aggressive ride under cornering/acceleration.

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